template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

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paul_france
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template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by paul_france »

Hello all,

Did anyone realize a template to Optimize PDF that I could import?

I m looking for a very strong optimisation,

thanks
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Tracker Supp-Stefan
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello paul_france,

You should set up your own optimization preferences - as what works for someone else and their files might not be good for you.
Please do have in mind that image downsampling and recompressing are lossy processes - so the quality would likely decrease (and text does not really optimize/compress that much).
You can read more on the optimization options here:
https://help.pdf-xchange.com/pdfxe ... b=optimize
and here:
How do I reduce the file size of documents in PDF-Xchange?

Kind regards,
Stefan
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by 4mc »

I'd be interested in or just a screen shot with options. I have hundreds of historic music magazines to scan and create PDF's from. If I import the magazines as jpg from the scanner, I typically get pdf's around 185MB pdf's by default.

If I save as optimized using the default settings, the pdf's shrink to circa 8MB but the text is so pixelated its virtually unreadable. I've been trying various options but with little success. Often PDF X-Change hangs on the cleanup step when I try combinations. I'm really flying blind.

I understand results vary based on content, size of the imput pages, scan DPI, and that compressing jpegs can be lossy but a starter by someone who is doing something similar would be better than just randomly trying stuff.
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TrackerSupp-Daniel
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, 4mc

The trouble is that even someone doing similar tasks may have wildly different settings because of very small differences in the output.
For example, perhaps you are just working with few scanners and are testing on the same document with all three:
1. "Generic HP Scanner A" may automatically perform OCR on a file, generating editable text in a custom font which it embeds, taking up much space.
2. Meanwhile, "Generic Brother scanner B", generates well optimized image, with searchable text that is not embedded.
3. Finally, "Generic Ricoh Scanner C", does not perform OCR on the file, but instead creates pages with a collage of images, and overlaid "image masks". These images are collectively very large.

Each of these three cases, while all created by the same "process" give very different documents, and so even if the intent is to create a file with images retained that is small enough to email (ie, sub 20mb).
~One of these (#1) may already be there, so optimizing is unnecessary, but could still improve things slightly with the "cleanup" and "fonts" categories, to remove excess fonts.
~One of these (#2) could actually see an increase in size, because the image is so well optimized, that re-compressing is ill advised. The "images" options will help to prevent that, chiefly, checking the "optimize only if there is a reduction in size". It could also be that the images "quality" setting is too low, or that the "dpi value chosen is a bit lower than needed for your desired results.
~Finally one of these (#3) could see either a massive improvement, or a large amount of file size growth because of the numerous types of images present. In some cases, it is better to first "rasterize" pages (from the convert tab) before trying to Save as Optimized, to flatten and convert unnecessary content items into another more consistent type which can be more easily re-compressed.

Using the "audit space usage" function is great for determining what area to focus on,
If you wish to reduce the file size of an image heavy document, these are the settings you will want to look at primarily:
image.png
If you want to reduce the font size these options may help:
image(1).png
image(2).png
And if you want to reduce document overhead, the "entirety of the "discard objects" and "discard user data" categories, will be helpful.

Images are of course the hardest item to fine tune, and the hardest to offer advice for, the best I can suggest is to try aiming for around the 300-400 dpi mark (set both the "images larger than" and the "downsampling to" values). This is usually low enough that image size is small while the quality is not too heavily impacted, unless you look at it at high zoom levels.

Kind regards,
Dan McIntyre - Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by 4mc »

Thank you Daniel.

In my case my Czur AURA Mate Pro scanner is NOT recognized by PDF-XCHANGE, so typically I scan the magazines or books into a directory, the jpgs are sequentially numbered, I just open pdf-xchange and import them.

I've sent a number of books and magazines as unprocessed jpegs from the scanner to 3rd party websites like the Internet Archive. They do their own post processing to produce a text full index and page by page images/pdfs and go from there. I have no insight into how they do it.

I have about 150 Down beat jazz magazines from the late 1950's to 1986 to scan. These are for my own research use and not for releasing. I've had a lot more luck trying scanning actual books. My scanner by default produces 1-page per image. It automatically separates pages and aligns them, and saves each page as a jpeg.

Properties are:
600x600 DPI
24-bit color.

Here is a 400-page book I've been trying to optimize today. The scanner software creates a .pdf that comes in at 16MB but is so pixelated it's hard to read. When I import the images via PDF-XCHANGE, I get a 120MB Pdf that is difficult to read.
image.png
Scanning books largely requires only grayscale and I can save space by converting the jpegs to grayscale, and auto compression. I'm just struggling to the results I think I should. For a 400-page book I'd be happy with 50-60MB with slightly more readable pages. I'm just not getting the results from magazines that work.

I've read numerous pages including this https://www.prepressure.com/pdf/basics/compression but was hoping to find something more recent.
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by Sean - Tracker »

Hi 4mc,

Have you considered trying with a different scanner - ideally one that is compatible with the PDF-XChange software?

Kind regards,
Sean Godley
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by 4mc »

>Have you considered trying with a different scanner - ideally one that is compatible with the PDF-XChange software?

I have a Lexmark 4-1 flat bed scanner, that is capable of scanning at 1200 DPI. It doesn't solve this problem and would be entirely useless for scanning 400-page books unless you destroy the book by cutting all the pages at the spine, ie turning the book back into a series of double sided, single sheets.

That would also require a much bigger batch scanner as well. This is what Google books and a few of the other archiving sites do. I'm a guy who buys his own books and magazines and is trying to make it work. My table top opverhead scanner works via a foot pedal, I use finger cots to hold the pages open and the books and magazines don't get damaged.

It seems like scanning text (mostly) books at 96 DPI B&W and having PDF-XCHANGE set to do no downsampling, no conversion for image processing and AUTO Monochrome image compression might be the way to go. I'm now on my 3rd day of testing...
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp »

Hi, 4mc

96 dpi is pretty low. How is that working out for you? Is it readable?

Kind regards,
Paul - Tracker Supp
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Paul O'Rorke
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by 4mc »

>>96 dpi is pretty low. How is that working out for you? Is it readable?

Well I've wasted 4-days mostly on this and scanned a 506 page book twice(once at the default 600DPI, the second time at 96DPI) as well as dozens of trys to get PDF-Xchange to produce a usable document and it's just not cutting it. I'd be happy to share jpg input files and the pdf the scanner software produces and yes, its very readable.
image.png
These are the final PDF's I've managed to produce. The 2nd one, Mate 90DPI contains 506 pages at 96DPI. It comes in at a impressive 16MB. If I import the same 506 image files into PDF-Xchange, with no compression and no downsampling, PDF-Xchange comes it a depressing 1.6GB.

When saving the 1.6GB pdf as optimized in PDF-Xchange, it shrank to 207MB.

Opened on 1920 x 1080 laptop screen there is no noticeable difference when reading them. I've been through this process twice with two different scanned books, neither time can I make PDF-Xchange even close. Thats why I posted here looking for template or advice. I have the latest 10.0.1 build 371
image(1).png
Willy Van Nuffel
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by Willy Van Nuffel »

Could you please post 10 (or more) jpg-files (in a ZIP) and the resulting pdf's from your scanner and from PDF-XChange Editor ?

I am just curious to discover why there is such a difference between the two of them.

Kind regards.

Willy
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PHK
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by PHK »

FWIW, I found that scanning printed materials such as magazines it is better (and a bit counter-intuitive) to scan in color even if the content is b&w. The produced files are reasonably sized and the OCRing works well.
All best,

FringePhil
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello PHK,

Yes - OCR usually works better with coloured images. When you think of it - there are 16+ million colour possibilities in a 3 byte (RGB) pixel than in a B&W pixel (two possibilities) - so especially the edges/borders or letters and the curves in their shapes are then easier for an OCR engine to recognize.

Kind regards,
Stefan
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by PHK »

Tracker Supp-Stefan wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:38 pm Hello PHK,

Yes - OCR usually works better with coloured images. When you think of it - there are 16+ million colour possibilities in a 3 byte (RGB) pixel than in a B&W pixel (two possibilities) - so especially the edges/borders or letters and the curves in their shapes are then easier for an OCR engine to recognize.

Kind regards,
Stefan
Building on that, Stefan, you don't have to have super-high resolution. I typically scan at 200 dpi which produces very satisfactory page images without creating huge files. One hundred pages of A4-size pages are typically under 50MB. I also merge the pages 2-wide as a vertical stack to minimize page blizzards. The 2-wide format then looks like an open magazine with the gutter down the middle. If the content has images that go across the gutter, I will split the merged stack of pages into three with the gutter being the middle page and as thin as I can make it without losing content and then re-merging the two content pages into one page. Having thousands of pages in a file makes me nauseous and actually perusing the scanned results painful, so that's why I do the above. See https://1drv.ms/b/s!AsBVtdXZAI89j_h0u8bTsUkRsTiihQ?e=JDktuJ as an example.
All best,

FringePhil
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello PHK,

yes - 150+ DPI and colour images scans should be plenty for most OCR engines to work with, and if you are happy with 200 size and scanning speed wise - that is even better!

300 DPI is (or was a decade ago) considered print quality so scanning at 200 is enough, and there is not much reason to scan at more than 300 for OCR purposes - as the content you are scanning is probably lower res anyway. 600+ DPI scans would be needed if you need to enlarge some details, but for OCR 200 is likely the 'sweet spot' :)

Kind regards,
Stefan
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by 4mc »

Willy Van Nuffel wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 7:07 am Could you please post 10 (or more) jpg-files (in a ZIP) and the resulting pdf's from your scanner and from PDF-XChange Editor ?

I am just curious to discover why there is such a difference between the two of them.
Here are the files. [url]https://markcathcart.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/PDF-Xchange-files.zip[/url]

10-pages in 600x600dpi from the scanner. 1x 340kb scanner produced PDF. 1x 2517kb PDF produced by PDF-XChange.

Note, both pdf's were edited with PDF-Change to create the files for the zip, the only thing I did to both was to remove 407 pages. The original book is still in copyright. The relative sizes of the pdf's is still the same as the unedited PDFs.

A few observations on the remarks made here.

1. This book doesn't need 600dp. In fact both PDF versions are less readable than scanned at 96DPI.
2. My original intent for scanning at 600DPI was so that I could read on a PC and also using PDF-Xchange, export individual pages for blog posts etc. when needed. I also want the PDF to contain as good quality pictures as I could scan.
3. It's only been since I came here to ask that I've learned anything about PDF's. Until I discovered PDF-XChange I was totally anti-using them and back circa 2009 coined the phrase "PDF's, where information goes to die!" [url]https://cathcam.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/are-pdfs-where-information-goes-to-die/[/url]

I agree with PHK and Stefan that 200DPI would do for most of my use cases. FYI, my scanner also scans both pages but the scanner automatically splits them into single pages.

Also, 3-time Mercedes owner ;-)

I'm really interested in any suggestions, which is why I jumped in on this thread. I really have a 150+ jazz magazines to scan and want to get it right. Thanks for all the comments.

++Mark.
https://ctproduced.com
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PHK
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by PHK »

4mc wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:02 am ...
Here are the files. [url]https://markcathcart.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/PDF-Xchange-files.zip[/url]

10-pages in 600x600dpi from the scanner. 1x 340kb scanner produced PDF. 1x 2517kb PDF produced by PDF-XChange.
I cannot access that file from that site
4mc wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:02 am

Note, both pdf's were edited with PDF-Change to create the files for the zip, the only thing I did to both was to remove 407 pages. The original book is still in copyright. The relative sizes of the pdf's is still the same as the unedited PDFs.

A few observations on the remarks made here.

1. This book doesn't need 600dp. In fact both PDF versions are less readable than scanned at 96DPI.
2. My original intent for scanning at 600DPI was so that I could read on a PC and also using PDF-Xchange, export individual pages for blog posts etc. when needed. I also want the PDF to contain as good quality pictures as I could scan.
3. It's only been since I came here to ask that I've learned anything about PDF's. Until I discovered PDF-XChange I was totally anti-using them and back circa 2009 coined the phrase "PDF's, where information goes to die!" [url]https://cathcam.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/are-pdfs-where-information-goes-to-die/[/url]

I agree with PHK and Stefan that 200DPI would do for most of my use cases. FYI, my scanner also scans both pages but the scanner automatically splits them into single pages.
So, why don't you scan @200dpi? Also, I must emphasize COLOR. The images should be very good as well as the text.
4mc wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:02 am ...
I'm really interested in any suggestions, which is why I jumped in on this thread. I really have a 150+ jazz magazines to scan and want to get it right.
I am sympathetic to that as I would love to see the historic jazz magazines, too, as a function of my mis-spent youth and I would really like you to succeed in this project. I know it is possible.
All best,

FringePhil
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by 4mc »

>> I cannot access that file from that site

Hmm.. works for me on every computer I try...
https://markcathcart.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/PDF-Xchange-files.zip

>>So, why don't you scan @200dpi? Also, I must emphasize COLOR. The images should be very good as well as the text.

Yes, I've come to that conclusion now. As I said my original intent was to scan at a high DPI so I could export high quality images/pictures In fact my table top overhead scanner(think cellphone on an arm) default is 255DPI Color. I've been doing some magazines using that today.

Interestingly the scanner software creates much small pdfs than if I import the images and get PDF-XChange to do it.

32.6MB vs 240MB
So still a mystery.
image.png
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by PHK »

4mc wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:49 pm ...
Hmm.. works for me on every computer I try...
https://markcathcart.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/PDF-Xchange-files.zip
Thanks for the ZIP file; that works.
4mc wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:49 pm ...Interestingly the scanner software creates much small pdfs than if I import the images and get PDF-XChange to do it.

32.6MB vs 240MB
So still a mystery.
...
Yes, I noticed that the pages seem to be about one-quarter of the actual size. There must be a setting for that somewhere in the scanner software. Otherwise, that seems to be workable output.
All best,

FringePhil
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by PHK »

As a matter of personal preference (I am alergic to high page counts), I would take this a few steps further and Merge Pages so that these would all be on one sheet, but retaining the side-by-side appearance of a magazine.
The Man II.pdf
(1.61 MiB) Downloaded 28 times
All best,

FringePhil
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by 4mc »

PHK wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:47 pm As a matter of personal preference (I am alergic to high page counts), I would take this a few steps further and Merge Pages so that these would all be on one sheet, but retaining the side-by-side appearance of a magazine. The Man II.pdf
That would be easy to do, although not preferable for reading on a book reader. I even have a portrait monitor set up on my desk for reading documents and when I travel I have a 2-1 with the screen which double over to use as a large tablet.

What PDF-Xchange options did you use for image processing and image compression? Screenshots would be great!
image.png
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by PHK »

4mc wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 1:58 am ...What PDF-Xchange options did you use for image processing and image compression? Screenshots would be great!
....
I use a destructive scanning approach which may not be suitable for what you are doing. I unbind the magazine and run the pages through a sheet-fed dual-sided scanner (Epson DS-510). I bin the paper once I have satisfactory scans. My settings are fairly straightforward.
image.png
image(1).png
image(2).png
The hardest part is the unbinding. The actual scanning usually takes less than 2 minutes for +/- 100 pages plus another 2 minutes or so for the image processing.
All best,

FringePhil
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by Willy Van Nuffel »

@4mc Thanks for the example files.

It is amazing what a very high rate of compression that has been reached with the software of your Czur scanner and that the text is still good readable.

In PDF-XChange Editor I looked at the information about the compression method and the size of the corresponding images in your PDF (via the Home-tab > Edit Objects > Images, followed by right-mouse-click and Recompress Images).

In "Image Details", there is a zone with "Image"-info and a zone with "Mask"-info (something special that I have not yet seen before).

So, it seems like the image of the page consists of two parts. A first part with 180x295 pixels in JPEG2000-format (5,11 KB) and a second part with 720x1180 pixels in JBIG2-format (7,27 KB) = very small files for the given content. Via right-mouse-click on the image of page 1, followed by "Save Image As...", I have two possible output formats, JPG and PNG. The resulting JPG is 12 KB but black and unusable. The PNG is 128 KB (about 10 times larger than the sum of the two internal image(s) ).

@Tracker Support
I hope that you can tell us something more about this and if it would be possible in the future to also reach that kind of compression rates in Tracker Software applications.
Myself, I did not succeed to reach a similar result with the current version of PDF-XChange Editor (build 371), creating a new file with the JPG-images delivered by 4mc.

Kind regards to everyone.


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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by 4mc »

PHK wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 8:05 am The hardest part is the unbinding. The actual scanning usually takes less than 2 minutes for +/- 100 pages plus another 2 minutes or so for the image processing.
Yes, I've tried to avoid that as most of the materials I scan are somewhat scarce. However, I think it's worth a try especially as I have a 4-1 scanner with a 150 page autofeed.

I appreciate your engagement on this topic, thanks.
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by PHK »

4mc wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:14 pm ...
I appreciate your engagement on this topic, thanks.
Glad to help a worthy project; no problem.
All best,

FringePhil
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, all

It seems this topic has mostly come to a close, I didn't want to interrupt your discussion. On to Willy's question for us:
Willy Van Nuffel wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:45 pm @Tracker Support
I hope that you can tell us something more about this and if it would be possible in the future to also reach that kind of compression rates in Tracker Software applications.
Compression is something which can and will certainly see improvements over time in the future, but it is a long term development process. Just note that it will be something that you see very small gradual changes, every few updates, over the coming years.

Kind regards,
Dan McIntyre - Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Our Web site domain and email address has changed as of 26/10/2023.
https://www.pdf-xchange.com
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by David.P »

Hello all,
Willy Van Nuffel wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:45 pmIn "Image Details", there is a zone with "Image"-info and a zone with "Mask"-info (something special that I have not yet seen before).

So, it seems like the image of the page consists of two parts. A first part with 180x295 pixels in JPEG2000-format (5,11 KB) and a second part with 720x1180 pixels in JBIG2-format (7,27 KB) = very small files for the given content. Via right-mouse-click on the image of page 1, followed by "Save Image As...", I have two possible output formats, JPG and PNG. The resulting JPG is 12 KB but black and unusable. The PNG is 128 KB (about 10 times larger than the sum of the two internal image(s) ).
I believe that this is called MRC compression (Mixed Raster Content) and some scanners can do this.

image.png

https://support.abbyy.com/hc/en-us/articles/360016544840-Highly-Compressed-MRC-PDF-Export

Before And After MRC Compression.zip
(1.46 MiB) Downloaded 26 times
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello David.P,

Thanks for the above! Indeed we've seen such files - however this type of content splitting has it's own quirks (especially the "Front" masks - and attempting to edit content in such files later) - so our approach is different.

With 'destructive' image compressions and dropping the DPI (possibly after an EOCR run to recognize text) would still give pretty small files using our products as well.

Kind regards,
Stefan
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Re: template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by Willy Van Nuffel »

Also thanks from my side to David.P for the additional information.
It is exactly the info that I was looking for.

That MRC compression is really impressive, more than 10 times less space required.

Kind regards.

Willy
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template to Optimize PDF with strong compression

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

:)
Dan McIntyre - Support Technician
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Our Web site domain and email address has changed as of 26/10/2023.
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