Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

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chrisjj
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Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

Where is an option to set JPEG 2000 to be used for all image encoding?

I need to ensure no regular JPG encoding on save PDFs.

Thanks.
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello chrisjj,

We will need to know which routine you are using to import images inside a PDF file. I do not believe there is a global setting, but you should be able to select it for the options you need.

E.g. when you are creating a new PDF file from images - you can specify the Image Compression (and file format to be used) for such images that would be added to the PDF from here:
image.png
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

> We will need to know which routine you are using to import images inside a PDF file.

For a global setting?? Some mistake, I think.

> I do not believe there is a global setting

Please pass on my suggestion this be rectified.

> but you should be able to select it for the options you need.

That's my current workaround - where available. Where are these options for Paste Image?

> E.g. when you are creating a new PDF file from images - you can specify the Image Compression

Where is that in Preferences, please? The settings made on that box act as a preference i.e. persist, but I can't find them under Preferences?

> (and file format to be used) for such images that would be added to the PDF from here:

Note: This is apparently mislabelled/tipped. It should at least mention Scan.

image.png
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello chrisjj,

I do agree with you that this could be clarified a bit! I will check with our devs on how we can improve the wording here.
I presume they shortened it to just "Import..." as "Import from scanner" is too long and a more compact layout was desired.

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

Thanks.

Reposting:

> but you should be able to select it for the options you need.

That's my current workaround - where available. Where are these options for Paste Image?

> E.g. when you are creating a new PDF file from images - you can specify the Image Compression

Where is that in Preferences, please? The settings made on that box act as a preference i.e. persist, but I can't find them under Preferences?
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, chrisjj

As Stefan mentioned, in his earlier post, there are no global settings to affect this, right click would require a global setting to be changed, and an option in the preferences would be a global setting, neither exists at this time. You can only manually change/set the image compression either after placement with re-compress images, or during placement with the insert images tool.

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

> You can only manually change/set the image compression either after placement with re-compress images

Thanks but I can't find that command.

>, or during placement with the insert images tool.

Meaning "Where are these options for Paste Image?" is answered "There are none" ?
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, chrisjj

The Recompress images tool is present on the Convert tab, or it is accessible by searching in the quick launch menu.

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

> The Recompress images tool is present on the Convert tab

No tabs here, on Classic. And Classic Help finds it only on the Ribbon UI (!).

, or it is accessible by searching in the quick launch menu.

I can't find that either! Perhaps it is Ribbon mode only?
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, chrisjj

Most new features are also added to the classic UI, unless you have customized to a point that new items are not being added, these are certainly accessible. The tool will appear under the document menu, within the "more for pages" flyout.
The quick launch toolbar is located at the top of the software, even in the classic ui:
image.png
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

> Most new features are also added to the classic UI,

Thanks.

> unless you have customized to a point that new items are not being added

I would not dare customise it. I need it to accord with what little documentation there is.

> The tool will appear under the document menu, within the "more for pages" flyout.

Got it:
image.png
Thanks. My search should have spotted that. Sorry.

> The quick launch toolbar is located at the top of the software, even in the classic ui:

Crikey. In the title bar!

But thanks. Very handy.

Now, Recompress Images gives me only e.g.
image(1).png
which will require the same tricksing of "for images above". How there can I convert all images to JPEG 2000 unconditionally?
Last edited by chrisjj on Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello chrisjj,

If you need to mass process several files - then the Recompress Images inside PDF Tools will be able to do the job(s) with less clicks from your side.

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

> If you need to mass process several files

That's not what I'm asking for.

>- then the Recompress Images inside PDF Tools will be able to do the job(s)

It has the same issue. How to make it compress unconditionally?
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, chrisjj
chrisjj wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:55 pm It has the same issue. How to make it compress unconditionally?
For compression, the simplest method would probably be to set the "for images above" value lower than the lowest dpi value image in your document:
image.png
Recompression is able to increase the dpi of images, bringing something that is, for example, 50 dpi, up to 150 dpi, if you like. The fidelity will not be as good as an image that originally was 150 dpi, but it should not be any worse than it was at 50 dpi.

We'd also like to ask that if an answer you receive on the forum is unclear or does not appear to answer the question that you asked exactly, that you please give a more detailed response than simply "that's not what I'm asking for" - it will help us immensely to assist you in resolving any issues you have if you could elaborate a little further in cases like these, and perhaps reiterate exactly what it is you need - especially in the case of long and detailed forum discussions, as sometimes exact requests and other details can get lost in the back and forth of the conversation.

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

> For compression, the simplest method

That's my workaround. I asked because I'm seeking best not simplest!

> Recompression is able to increase the dpi of images

Ugh.

So how to change to JPG2000 without changing DPI?

> We'd also like to ask that if an answer you receive on the forum is unclear or does not appear to answer the question that you asked exactly, that you please give a more detailed response than simply "that's not what I'm asking for"

I believe often that helps the reader take another look at the clear question. So in this case "If you need to mass process several files" is clearly not the question, given I've never mention mass process here.

Thanks for the suggestion though. I'll keep it in mind when appropriate, for sure!
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, chrisjj
chrisjj wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:44 pm So how to change to JPG2000 without changing DPI?
This is not possible at this time. The only way to change the compression method would be to recompress the images, we do not offer any functions to retain the original DPI while doing so, although it may be something we could consider adding in the future.

(On further thought, this is not entirely true, there simply is not way to automate it. You could manually recompress each individual image, one at a time, allowing you to specify that the DPI remains the same.) The recompress image function is found by right clicking on an image while it is selected with an editing tool.

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

This is not possible at this time.

OK. Thanks.

> The only way to change the compression method would be to recompress the images

I'm fine with that. The snag is the program gies no way to recompress without possibly changing DPI.

> (On further thought, this is not entirely true, there simply is not way to automate it. You could manually recompress each individual image, one at a time, allowing you to specify that the DPI remains the same.) The recompress image function is found by right clicking on an image while it is selected with an editing tool.

Thanks. I can imaging doing that on a particular image that suffers badly from the uniform recompress.

But at the moment a uniform recompress is all I can afford time for.

The images are business scans. Mostly 300 and 600 dpi scans of most black-and-white A4 text pages. I'd do some tests to determine uniform target DPI would be best.

Thanks.
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Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

:)
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

This is odd. In PDF-Tools, changing from JPG to JPG2000 in both places here:
image.png
takes the output from 6Mb to 10Mb!
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, chrisjj

Recompression can indeed result in unexpected changes to file size. If you can send us a copy of the before and after file, we can take a look at what may be happening and see if we can improve it in a future release.

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

> Recompression can indeed result in unexpected changes to file size.

I guess you're suggesting JPG invokes less of it than JPG2000. Thanks.

Sorry, the file is confidential.
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, chrisjj

No worries, it happens, and I was not trying to imply anything, simply making a statement, the recompression process is not perfect, and there are times when the results go counter to what would be expected in terms of file size and various other respects. This is a big part of why the Dev team was so hesitant to offer a "recompress all images" in the first place. The act of trying to automate the process results in less optimized results, which in turn makes the function less useful than it could otherwise be.

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

> the Dev team was so hesitant to offer a "recompress all images" in the first place.

Understood, I'm so glad they did. I'm using it to fix this corruption. The file bloat is a price well worth paying on the odd corrupt chapter.
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Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

:)
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by David.P »

Hello Daniel & @all,
TrackerSupp-Daniel wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:24 pmRecompression is able to increase the dpi of images
I'd love to try that because I do indeed have occasional use cases for it. However, I don't seem to succeed in increasing the resolution of any images, only a reduction seems to be possible, or working, respectively.

Image

Am I missing something?

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, David.P

It turns out that I was actually quite wrong on that front, while I thought it was working because it did not present me with an error message in my initial tests, I should have investigated further. the DPI maximum is apparently locked to the current value, and we cannot actually increase it, despite appearances from these settings, it can only be decreased.

My apologies for the confusion.

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by David.P »

Thank you Daniel, for letting me know.

Maybe this (in my view) useful feature can be added at a later time.

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by Vasyl-Tracker Dev Team »

Hi David.

What is the point to increase the DPI of the existing image? In that case it will just increase the size of pdf-file without real improvement of the quality of enlarged image(s).

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

> Where are these options for Paste Image?

Please?
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello chrisjj,

Are you pasting the image from the clipboard (it will then be pasted as a stamp) or using the Add -> Image content?

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

Clipboard.
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello chrisjj,

Then the pixels of the image as stored in the clipboard will be taken, and used to create a stamp with raster content inside. There will be no specific image format that can be controlled - as the 'raw' pixels are taken from the clipboard and added in the stamp.

Where there is a possibility to control the image settings - we are providing the necessary tools to do so.

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

> There will be no specific image format that can be controlled - as the 'raw' pixels are taken from the clipboard and added in the stamp.

Are you saying Paste image does not apply encoding?
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello chrisjj,

As far as I know stamps are pasted with raw raster data for any image components. The stamp is then archived using some lossless compressions available in the PDF specification - but I do not believe there is a specific image format that is used for the stamp. I will check with the dev team for a confirmation on that statement though!

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

> As far as I know stamps

Not the question.

> but I do not believe there is a specific image format

Not the question.

> I will check with the dev team for a confirmation on that statement though!

Perhaps you could just get their answer to: Does Paste image does apply encoding?
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello chrisjj,

Just to confirm - I've asked and am awaiting a reply. Will post here as soon as I have any feedback.

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

Thanks!
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Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hi ChrisJ,

Our dev team were discussing such options only last week - but it was decided that "including image insertion options for stamps would overcomplicate the procedure and having options for everything will make the Editor impossible to use by regular users."

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

And is there an answer to the question? Does Paste image does apply encoding?
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello ChrisJJ,

I was under the impression that this was already answered and you had already accepted the answer:
chrisjj wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:29 pm >, or during placement with the insert images tool.

Meaning "Where are these options for Paste Image?" is answered "There are none" ?
Following that:
chrisjj wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:24 am Are you saying Paste image does not apply encoding?
No, we are saying that there is forced decoding of during the copy, they are then re-encoded using a default type during the paste process (typically Zip).
chrisjj wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 11:23 am > As far as I know stamps

Not the question.

> but I do not believe there is a specific image format

Not the question.
I have said it before, but this method of responding to our questions is not helpful. First, there are times where you cut out only a section of a sentence which follows up to answer your question, and then treat the two halves as separate items for discussion when they are intended to be a single topic. So please, if you are going to quote our sentences, do quote them in full, so that if someone other than myself or Stefan has to come in and help, they can easily follow the items you are referring to. The Forums even offers a "quote" function, so that you can link back to the post where the quoted text came from, which I have used above:
image.png
And finally, back to the start:
chrisjj wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 10:49 pm And is there an answer to the question? Does Paste image does apply encoding?
Yes it does. If you are interested, you can find the encoding that was used for a given pasted image by flattening the comment:
image(1).png
And then selecting it with the "edit images" tool, and looking at the "recompress images" function:
image(2).png
image(3).png
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by David.P »

Vasyl-Tracker Dev Team wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:47 pm What is the point to increase the DPI of the existing image? In that case it will just increase the size of pdf-file without real improvement of the quality of enlarged image(s).
Hello Vasyl,

thanks for your reply, and sorry for my late feedback.

It is of course true that just increasing the dpi of an existing image will only increase the file size and not the image quality.

However, a use case for me is as follows. I often have (scanned) PDF files with line drawings in e.g. 300 dpi grayscale (or color). But I normally need these drawings in pure black and white. If I simply convert the images directly to black and white, part of the image information, or optical resolution, of the original image is lost. The black and white images then become rather pixelated, see PDF file in the attachment.

Therefore, it would be useful to be able to, for example, double the resolution of the grayscale images (using "Recompress Images") to 600 dpi first, and then to generate 600 dpi black-and-white images from the upsampled images. When the black-and-white images are then compressed using JBIG, for example, the file size of these high-resolution black-and-white images is still tiny and negligible.

Therefore, from my point of view, it would be a useful feature if one could also increase the resolution when recompressing images.

Quite optimally, when such upsampling would be done, and in case of a simultaneous conversion to another color depth (e.g. to black-and-white), the upsampling could be done first, and only then the color depth conversion would be carried out:

Image

Thank you
David
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

> I was under the impression that this was already answered and you had already accepted the answer:
> > Meaning "Where are these options for Paste Image?" is answered "There are none" ?

That says "Where are these options for Paste Image?"

The outstanding question is: Does Paste image does apply encoding?

> No

I take that as Q:Does Paste image does apply encoding? A: No.

Thanks.

> we are saying that there is forced decoding of during the copy, they are then re-encoded using a default type during the paste process (typically Zip).

Ah. That contradicts your No. So, I take it that answer is in fact Yes. Thanks.

> I have said it before, but this method of responding to our questions is not helpful. First, there are times where you cut out only a section of a sentence which follows up to answer your question

Sorry but any previous such complaint is one I didn't see.

> , and then treat the two halves as separate items for discussion when they are intended to be a single topic.

Yup. Where I think something needs dividing for a clearer response, I do.

So please, if you are going to quote our sentences, do quote them in full

OK. "No, we are saying that there is forced decoding of during the copy, they are then re-encoded using a default type during the paste process (typically Zip)." says No then Yes.

> The Forums even offers a "quote" function

I can't find how to get that to quote a selection. Can you?

>> Does Paste image does apply encoding?
> Yes it does.

Thanks. Please pass on my request for rectification of the UIs omission of the ability to make settings for this Paste image encoding.

Thanks.
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, David.P,

Thank you for the
David.P wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:07 am Therefore, it would be useful to be able to, for example, double the resolution of the grayscale images (using "Recompress Images") to 600 dpi first, and then to generate 600 dpi black-and-white images from the upsampled images. When the black-and-white images are then compressed using JBIG, for example, the file size of these high-resolution black-and-white images is still tiny and negligible.
Thank you for the excellent example, I will be sure that Vasyl sees this so we can look into methods and if this is a viable feature to add. I cannot make any promises, but we will certainly see what can be done.

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

ChrisJJ,
chrisjj wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 11:02 am The outstanding question is: Does Paste image does apply encoding?

> No

I take that as Q:Does Paste image does apply encoding? A: No.

Thanks.

> we are saying that there is forced decoding of during the copy, they are then re-encoded using a default type during the paste process (typically Zip).

Ah. That contradicts your No. So, I take it that answer is in fact Yes. Thanks.
Youve misconstrued what was said once again, I quoted your question which was specifically worded asking "if we are saying that it does not apply encoding"
TrackerSupp-Daniel wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 11:16 pm that:
chrisjj wrote: ↑Yesterday, 02:24
Are you saying Paste image does not apply encoding?
No, we are saying that there is forced decoding of during the copy, they are then re-encoded using a default type during the paste process (typically Zip).
Then end result is the same and you are correct, yes, there is forced encoding during the paste, but please do not make it out as if we have given false information when we have not.
chrisjj wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 11:02 am I can't find how to get that to quote a selection. Can you?
My apologies, I should have clarified, my screenshot above shows what to do, but in text, you need to scroll down while writing your post, to "see" the previous posts in the thread. Then select a section of text that you wish to quote and click the "quote" button in the top right corner of the post which you are trying to quote.
chrisjj wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 11:02 am Thanks. Please pass on my request for rectification of the UIs omission of the ability to make settings for this Paste image encoding.
I will do so, but I cannot make any promises for implementation.

Kind regards,
Dan McIntyre - Support Technician
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

TrackerSupp-Daniel wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:02 pm in text, you need to scroll down while writing your post, to "see" the previous posts in the thread. Then select a section of text that you wish to quote and click the "quote" button in the top right corner of the post which you are trying to quote.
Thanks. And to scroll-up or if lucky Expand to get that quote button into view.

Strange this is unavailable in Edit.
TrackerSupp-Daniel wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:02 pm I cannot make any promises for implementation.
None requested or expected! Thanks!
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Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

:)
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

Where do I make the settings to work around for the Explorer "Combine in..." command on PNGs?

Thanks.
Last edited by chrisjj on Fri Apr 07, 2023 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, chrisjj

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are asking. Is this question relevant to the thread above? Could you please elaborate on what it is you want to do here?

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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by chrisjj »

TrackerSupp-Daniel wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 10:31 pm I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are asking. Is this question relevant to the thread above?
Yes. That's why it is here.
TrackerSupp-Daniel wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 10:31 pmCould you please elaborate on what it is you want to do here?
Use the Explorer "Combine in..." command without this image corruption.
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Re: Setting JPEG 2000 to workaround 359 image corruption bug

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, chrisjj

The "combine in" function is intended for various file types (not exclusively images) and as such uses its own default handling for each item type. As such, the image customization options are not available through "combine files" function at this time.

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Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

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