Problem with over-sized PDFs

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ralf
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Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by ralf »

Hello support team,

we have to handle over-sized PDF files which are created by some CAD application. The PDF drawings have length of 6m.

When opening attached demo-PDF in PDF-XChange Editor it simply cuts view at 5080mm without any notice to user that parts are not displayed.
PDX-XChange.jpg
Adobe Reader at least shows some warning message "The dimensions of this page are out-of-range. Page content might be truncated."
Adobe Reader.jpg
Finally Foxit PDF Reader dislpays whole PDF without any problems including car at the right and also shows correct dimension.
Foxit PDF Reader 01.jpg
Foxit PDF Reader 02.jpg
Can you check this issue? PDX XChange Editor should at least also show some warning that view is truncated. But best solution would be that it can display whole PDF without any problem. :wink:

BR,
Ralf
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DRAWING_6-METER.pdf
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TrackerSupp-Daniel
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, ralf

Inside the PDF Specification there is a limit of 14400 units in both the X and Y directions of a page. The default for PDF files is to use 72 units per inch - so the above 14 400 value translates to a 'max' size of 200 inches, or 5080mm when 72 units per inch are used. The specification defines a separate tool to allow the software creating a PDF page to specify a different 'scaling' of the coordinate system - so that you can create pages with larger dimensions. The CAD software that creates your file seems to ignore the specification and just define a media box of 16851.97 units:
image.png
image.png (5.04 KiB) Viewed 3957 times
The same specification states that only the first 14400 units should be displayed even though we, Adobe, and Foxit are all capable of using data beyond these sizes, this limitation still exists and should be observed as the vast majority of other software's which these files can be used with will also respect this.

We may offer a warning in the future, but for now, you should ideally never be making (or need to make) a file which is larger than 200inches to begin with. From a technical standpoint, there is no reason to do so, as PDF is a digital format, you can simply zoom in closer, even if the file was only 20 inches across it would have the same fidelity as a 200 inch document.
I would recommend that, when creating a PDF file from your CAD software, you choose a smaller paper size, instead of unnecessarily printing at a larger size that will cause problems in most PDF software's. (It defeats the purpose of making a "Portable Document Format (PDF)" file, if the software designed to use it cannot do so).

With the new release of PDF 2.0, and as other software's slowly transition to allow larger sizes, we may eventually remove this restrictions, but our Editor software has been capable of this for roughly a decade now, and has handled files this way for that whole time. It is unlikely to change until we can be sure that files we create will be compatible with the majority of other software's.

Kind regards,
Dan McIntyre - Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

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bqxmprij
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by bqxmprij »

TrackerSupp-Daniel wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 11:01 pm We may offer a warning in the future, but for now, you should ideally never be making (or need to make) a file which is larger than 200inches to begin with.
Hi,

We don't make all of files we view. Some are sent to us. In those cases, a warning would be helpful. Can that be implemented?
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TrackerSupp-Daniel
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, bqxmprij

We certainly may offer a warning in the future, but I cannot make any promises.

Kind regards,
Dan McIntyre - Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

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ralf
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by ralf »

Hello Daniel,

thanks for the detailed explaination. I fully understand that you only follow the standard. Nevertheless, it's not our decision to create this large PDF drawings. It's demanded from some of our customers. And sometimes we also receive them from some OEMs.

My personal wish would be: PDF-XChange displays full media box content and then shows some warning that PDF file does not follow standard and might be truncated in other applications. Or something like this. Maybe you can discuss this with your development team? :wink:

And BTW, Firefox, Google Chrome and thus also Microsoft Edge can display my demo PDF without any problems. Looks that they all ignore the standard. :)

BR,
Ralf
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Paul - Tracker Supp
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp »

Got it Ralf.

Ultimately this will be at the development team leader's discretion as to exactly what gets implemented and when. The contents of this thread will be considered as the work is done.

We will just have to wait and see what eventuates.

:)
Best regards

Paul O'Rorke
Tracker Support North America
http://www.tracker-software.com
ralf
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by ralf »

Hello,

Any idea if this topic is still on any agenda and will be implemented in the near future? :wink:

BR,
Ralf
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Paul - Tracker Supp
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp »

Hi Ralf,

it is certainly not a high priority at the moment I can say that. There was no ticket for this so I extracted agreement from the Dev Team to make one. RT#6320: Feature request :: Editor :: Support for over sized pages

This means it is officially in the pipe now. As to the ETA? That remains to be determined.

I hope that helps.
Best regards

Paul O'Rorke
Tracker Support North America
http://www.tracker-software.com
ralf
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by ralf »

Hi Paul,

Great! :D

Many thanks!

BR,
Ralf
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Paul - Tracker Supp
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp »

My pleasure Ralf.

:D
Best regards

Paul O'Rorke
Tracker Support North America
http://www.tracker-software.com
ralf
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by ralf »

Hello,

any idea if and when this feature will be implemented?

BR,
Ralf
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TrackerSupp-Daniel
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, ralf

I am afraid that I do not have any news for you on this front. It is likely still a long term item however...

Kind regards,
Dan McIntyre - Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

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Vasyl-Tracker Dev Team
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by Vasyl-Tracker Dev Team »

Hi Ralf.

Good news for you - in the upcoming build we will increase the page size limit from 200 in to 300 in. It will immediately solve your problem with 6m wide pages. And a little later, we plan to increase it by 10 or more times.

Cheers.
Vasyl Yaremyn
Tracker Software Products
Project Developer

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ralf
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by ralf »

Hello Vasyl,

these are really good news! :D Thanks for the update.

BR,
Ralf
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Dimitar - Tracker Supp
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Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by Dimitar - Tracker Supp »

:)
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PHK
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by PHK »

Vasyl-Tracker Dev Team wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 1:09 am Hi Ralf.

Good news for you - in the upcoming build we will increase the page size limit from 200 in to 300 in. It will immediately solve your problem with 6m wide pages. And a little later, we plan to increase it by 10 or more times.

Cheers.
Vasyl, when you say 'upcoming build' are we to take it to be NOT 380 which I installed today and which seems to have limits of 200x200?
All best,

FringePhil
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rakunavi
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by rakunavi »

Hello PHK,

Since Vasyl posted his message after build 380 was released, I imagine that build 381 will reflect this.

As Daniel mentioned previously, after relatively large updates like build 371 to build 380 are released, builds that fix issues caused by the large updates tend to be released rather quickly, so I expect that build 381 will be released within a few weeks. Therefore, it is extremely important for users to find and report issues immediately after major updates.

Best regards,
rakunavi
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PHK
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by PHK »

rakunavi wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2023 2:13 am Hello PHK,

Since Vasyl posted his message after build 380 was released, I imagine that build 381 will reflect this.

As Daniel mentioned previously, after relatively large updates like build 371 to build 380 are released, builds that fix issues caused by the large updates tend to be released rather quickly, so I expect that build 381 will be released within a few weeks. Therefore, it is extremely important for users to find and report issues immediately after major updates.

Best regards,
rakunavi
I was not sure what the timing sequence was which is why I posted.
All best,

FringePhil
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TrackerSupp-Daniel
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Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

:)
Dan McIntyre - Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

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ralf
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by ralf »

Yeah, new version 10.1.1.381 of PDF-XChange Editor now fully displays my 6m PDF files. :mrgreen:

Great work! Thanks! :D

BR,
Ralf
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Tracker Supp-Stefan
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Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

:)
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PHK
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by PHK »

So, now we're at 300"x300" max?

That's absolutely great! It should be adequate for me for a few years.
All best,

FringePhil
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Tracker Supp-Stefan
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello PHK,

I suspect that we have just started showing content that is at Media Box coordinates larger than 14 400. The file is still technically not 100% conforming to the PDF specification, however we are now showing that extra content.

The PDF Spec actually has "UserUnit" parameter that can be specified for a page - this is effectively a scale factor - so with a UserUnit of 10 - you can have a 2000 x 2000 inches file with media box 14 400 x 14 400 units - that will all be correct and conforming to the specification, and even the stricter older builds of the Editor would display it as 2000 x 2000 inches file, however a majority of CAD products do not use the UserUnit when creating PDF files, and just force media boxes that they should not.

Kind regards,
Stefan
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Jensen Head
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by Jensen Head »

Build 10.1.1.381 (19 Sep 2023)
Bugfixes and Improvements
Increased the maximum page size limit from 200 to 300 inches. (38830)
It's a pity that this fix did not address the problem of the inability to recognize pages with a height of around 14170 mm (557 in).
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TrackerSupp-Daniel
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, Jensen Head

557 inches is still larger than 300 inches... In time, we will be seeing additional increases, but we are doing these incrementally specifically so that we can find issues like this, and see them resolved before we expand it too much.

Kind regards,
Dan McIntyre - Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

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PHK
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by PHK »

TrackerSupp-Daniel wrote: Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:38 pm Hello, Jensen Head

557 inches is still larger than 300 inches... In time, we will be seeing additional increases, but we are doing these incrementally specifically so that we can find issues like this, and see them resolved before we expand it too much.

Kind regards,
I infer that an over-size page, like 557 inches, of this discussion is produced outside of PDF-XCE by some other software (CAD?) and one is trying to open it in PDF-XCE. As I cannot reproduce this sort of problem (no access such a file), my question is: would it be possible to reduce the page image before trying to display it and therefore have it fully visible with in the existing size constraints?

I know that the size constraints can be "managed" for files we create in PDF-XCE using Resize Page but does something like that work for imported files?
All best,

FringePhil
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TrackerSupp-Daniel
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, PHK

If the file is already beyond the constraints we support, I cannot guarantee that a resize action will work as expected. As has been mentioned, we do intend to increase this size gradually in the future, now that it is not a requirement of the Spec, and as Microsoft no longer supports 32 bit windows 10, (or previous 32 bit operating systems) we can safely go beyond this limit without too many worries.

The trouble now is that the old 200x200 limit was ingrained in the way we performed some tasks, so it is a gradual increase to ensure that we can catch and resolve the bugs that are likely to occur along the way. As such, it will be a lengthy process, but you can look forward to much larger page sizes than the current 300x300 in the future.

Kind regards,
Dan McIntyre - Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

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PHK
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Re: Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by PHK »

Thank you, Daniel. I do appreciate Tracker Software's willingness to increase page sizes and I have already enjoyed several situations where that has been useful to me.

I was just trying to see if there was a workaround for large page importers (me not among them) who might have an issue until you can allow us to work on even larger sheets. As someone who is enjoying the ability to create large datapestries rather than being confined to the legacy physical papers sizes like A4 and letter, I really applaud what you are doing in this area.
All best,

FringePhil
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TrackerSupp-Daniel
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Problem with over-sized PDFs

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

:)
Dan McIntyre - Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

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