AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

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MedBooster
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AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by MedBooster »

Similar post:
https://forum.pdf-xchange.com/viewtopic.php?p=156453&hilit=altgr#p156453

Please make it so that AltGr when in a text field like the typewriter works properly and activates character input,

If I have a keyboard shortcut set to Ctrl + a (see the attached screenshot) I would want it to activate my arrow tool which I have set it to, NOT input "α", I would want AltGr to activate character input. If you use brackets and parenthesis and you have a German/Nordic layout, you probably get where I am coming from. It is much easier to do AltGr+8/9 for "[" and "]" than Ctrl+Alt. So when it is conflicting please reverse the way it is now so that AltGr is for character input/output and Ctrl+Alt is for keyboard shortcut, or maybe at least give us an option to choose, because this is the way it is in all other programs I use, Notion, Anki, Word/PowerPoint/Excel all sorts of browsers, etc.
image.png
Se same applies to pop-up windows:
image(1).png

IMPORTANT READ:::::

Though a problem is that when using the right AltGr key it also activates Alt shortcuts. So if you press AltGr + O it will also activate your Alt + O shortcut!

Windows 10
PDF-xchange editor 361


I also remind you that you have videos that I have sent you from February 2022, in case you've forgotten. Just search your inbox for an E-mail exchange with the title "AltGr issue"
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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, MedBooster

We have not forgotten, do not worry there. But I will say that is if far more complicated than you may imagine to change the intrinsic handling of an existing modifier key. Eventually we should see AltGr (right alt) support properly in place for all functions. For the time being I have created a formal ticket to track this :
RT#6140: FR: implement proper AtlGr (right alt) key support

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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by MedBooster »

Great!
So the proper AltGr support also applies to what I mentioned with

"when using the right AltGr key it also activates Alt shortcuts. So if you press AltGr + O it will also activate your Alt + O shortcut!"

That seems to be the main issue which is annoying me the most

Ctrl + Alt and AltGr being reversed doesn't annoy me as much, but it would still be nice to have that fixed as well
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AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

:)
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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by MedBooster »

By the way

AltGr still acts as alt

E.g. having a keyboard shortcut set to alt+A, it is also activated when pressing AltGr+A, which it shouldn't because altgr is ctrl+alt .... If you don't look at the whole Ctrl+Alt VS. AltGr issue...
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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, MedBooster

Yes, unfortunately ticket #6140 still has not been marked as resolved yet. It is still open and in progress however.

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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by MedBooster »

actually, I see some usecases where it would be useful to have altgr act as alt (instead of ctrl+alt) for shortcuts

but maybe you could make it optional at least
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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, MedBooster

WE have too many "optional" features as is, the Dev team is reaching critical mass for handling the options we offer and testing and ensuring that they do not interfere with one another. As it stands, we are even considering removing some of the lesser used options to streamline the functionality and ensure less bugs can rise up from the sheer volume of variance we offer.

As such, when/if this is implemented, it is highly unlikely to be an optional thing, it very likely will simply "be" as it is once the change is implemented.

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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by MedBooster »

TrackerSupp-Daniel wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:42 pm Hello, MedBooster

WE have too many "optional" features as is, the Dev team is reaching critical mass for handling the options we offer and testing and ensuring that they do not interfere with one another. As it stands, we are even considering removing some of the lesser used options to streamline the functionality and ensure less bugs can rise up from the sheer volume of variance we offer.

As such, when/if this is implemented, it is highly unlikely to be an optional thing, it very likely will simply "be" as it is once the change is implemented.

Kind regards,
I understand...
well in that case I assume people have more need for character output (as many other languages other than English use AltGr for that a lot)

and to use AltGr you would just set a keyboard shortcut to ctrl+alt instead

AltGr should act as Ctrl+Alt only, because that is what it is made for .... adding an option for that would just be confusing and unnecessary, so never mind.
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AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

:)
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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by MedBooster »

I will try to maybe make an AutoHotKey script which makes a short delay (sleep) between Ctrl and Alt which is output when you press AltGr when PDF-xce is the active window.
I think that way PDF-xce will not be able to confuse AltGr with Alt, because AltGr will be interpreted as Ctrl+Alt automatically by AHK when in PDF-xce, so that PDF-xce itself basically never receives any AltGr signal.

That could be a decent temporary solution.
I'm using AltGr all the time for diacritics, or greek letters even, so I need to fix this.
I will get back to you on this.
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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by MedBooster »

To help you even more with solving this, I have noticed something interesting:

When pressing AltGr+F I would get my φ character output, EVEN though Ctrl+Alt+F is set to open and close the advanced search panel.

This means that AltGr+F works as it should, and it is not all keys, just some, like AltGr+A or M that activate the Ctrl+Alt keyboard shortcut (if there is character input for that keyboard shortcut combination)

Perhaps it is because Alt+A is set to a tool (arrow) and Alt+A is set to the hand tool, Alt+L for the line tool –––– as opposed to Ctrl+Alt+F for toggling the panel on and off
Edit: this is because I have no shortcut set to Alt+F. Which is the issue. So nevermind, my hypothesis was wrong

AltGr acts as the right Alt key (RALT) for all keyboard shortcuts..


but ... at least left control + F works for a shortcut, as well as AltGr + F for character input (if there is not Alt+F shortcut – as explained in the example above)
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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by MedBooster »

This AHK script kinda works as a temporary solution,
the issue is that AltGr (RAlt) then acts as Ctrl+LAlt, meaning that there is no separation between the two anymore... which I've already referred to as being needed in certain cases.
so basically it's just if you prefer using Alt + letter for shortcuts rather than ctrl+Alt

So just a *temporary workaround* here :)

Code: Select all

;PDF-xchange editor AltGr fix 05.06.2023
#IfWinActive, ahk_exe PDFXEdit.exe

*RAlt::
    Send {LControl Down}{LAlt Down}
    return

*RAlt Up::
    Send {LControl Up}{LAlt Up}
    Send {Blind}{RAlt Up}
    return

#IfWinActive

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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by MedBooster »

MedBooster wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:10 pm This AHK script kinda works as a temporary solution,
the issue is that AltGr (RAlt) then acts as Ctrl+LAlt, meaning that there is no separation between the two anymore... which I've already referred to as being needed in certain cases.
so basically it's just if you prefer using Alt + letter for shortcuts rather than ctrl+Alt

So just a *temporary workaround* here :)

Code: Select all

;PDF-xchange editor AltGr fix 05.06.2023
#IfWinActive, ahk_exe PDFXEdit.exe

*RAlt::
    Send {LControl Down}{LAlt Down}
    return

*RAlt Up::
    Send {LControl Up}{LAlt Up}
    Send {Blind}{RAlt Up}
    return

#IfWinActive

This script is OK for Greek letters I use sometimes for STEM subjects...
However, for typing in Languages that use AltGr to input diacritics, such as the Latvian āēōū ... even an AutoHotKey script like this does not suffice, simply because when you type too fast, the AHK script just can't keep up, and you would start activating keyboard shortcuts (even just for Ctrl+letter) simply because of the typing speed.
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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, MedBooster

Glad to hear you have found a somewhat usable workaround! I just checked up on the ticket in question here, and it seems that it has not seen progress in a while. I will nudge the Dev team to take another look at it when we get a chance.

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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by MedBooster »

Have you made any changes to this?

It seems to have gotten worse with the newest update

Now if there is any shortcut set to Ctrl (not just Alt as it was previously) it seems the shortcut is activated instead of the AltGr activated character...

For me it is @ when I press AltGr or Ctrl+Alt+2 in the Norwegian keyboard layout.

As previously mentioned I think it would be great if PDF-xce were able to distinguish between Ctrl+Alt for shortcuts and AltGr for character output, like plenty other softwares do...


Well that's not even the main issue, as I in fact don't use Ctrl+Alt shortcuts for that reason -––– to be able to use Ctrl+x or Alt+x shortcuts, but not even that seems to be working anymore :(((

edit:
I have explained it thoroughly here as well:
viewtopic.php?t=3506&hilit=altgr

AND I have sent you E-mails with video recordings, so you should be knowing what is going on and what I am referring to.


Kind regards
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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello MedBooster,

I've just bumped that ticket up a bit and asked for any updates if available!

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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by Ivan - Tracker Software »

I installed German and Norwegian keyboard layouts in Windows 11 (see screenshot), and everything is working as expected.
image.png
1. For testing purposes, I assigned Ctrl+Atl+2 to one of the commands (in my case, open Preferences). When I edit the text in the text box comment, for example, and press AltGr+2 (AltGr is the right Alt) it adds @ character to the text. When I press Ctrl+Alt+2 (Ctrl is the left Control key, Alt is the left Alt key) I got the corresponding command executed (Preferences dialog is shown in my case).

2. In the customize Command dialog, when I press AltGr+2, it actually adds CTRL+ALT+2 as a shortcut.

I tested on the latest build of the Editor as well as on an old 9.0.354.


We will double-check how it works on Windows 10 for sure. Do you have installed a third-party keyboard layout, or it comes from Windows?
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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by MedBooster »

Ivan - Tracker Software wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 7:08 pm I installed German and Norwegian keyboard layouts in Windows 11 (see screenshot), and everything is working as expected.
image.png

1. For testing purposes, I assigned Ctrl+Atl+2 to one of the commands (in my case, open Preferences). When I edit the text in the text box comment, for example, and press AltGr+2 (AltGr is the right Alt) it adds @ character to the text. When I press Ctrl+Alt+2 (Ctrl is the left Control key, Alt is the left Alt key) I got the corresponding command executed (Preferences dialog is shown in my case).

2. In the customize Command dialog, when I press AltGr+2, it actually adds CTRL+ALT+2 as a shortcut.

I tested on the latest build of the Editor as well as on an old 9.0.354.




We will double-check how it works on Windows 10 for sure. Do you have installed a third-party keyboard layout, or it comes from Windows?
It seems to be working better today. My standard Windows layouts work the same as my custom one (created with Microsoft Keyboard layout creator)

Do you have any status on the whole Alt vs. AltGr issue? With AltGr acting as Alt instead of Ctrl+Alt?

Try setting a keyboard shortcut to Alt+M for example, and then press AltGr+M for μ in the Norwegian layout, and you will see the Alt+M shortcut is activated, even though the shortcut is not set to Ctrl+Alt

It is a bit confusing, but I have described every nuance in my previous posts in the thread ↑↑
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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, MedBooster

Just to be sure, have you updated to build 381 yet? I only ask because your second to latest post was within a few hours of us posting this most recent release and I realize that it was not specified yet. The notes do not mention fixes in this area, but I thought I heard about some minor tweak making it in and I cant recall if that was for this release, or just planned for the next one...

I should also mention that the Dev in charge of this is on vacation for the next few weeks, so we will be in a bit of a lul with progress on this in the meantime. Hopefully when he is back, we can resume where we left off.

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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by MedBooster »

TrackerSupp-Daniel wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 6:06 pm Hello, MedBooster

Just to be sure, have you updated to build 381 yet? I only ask because your second to latest post was within a few hours of us posting this most recent release and I realize that it was not specified yet. The notes do not mention fixes in this area, but I thought I heard about some minor tweak making it in and I cant recall if that was for this release, or just planned for the next one...

I should also mention that the Dev in charge of this is on vacation for the next few weeks, so we will be in a bit of a lul with progress on this in the meantime. Hopefully when he is back, we can resume where we left off.

Kind regards,
test;

I just updated,
in version 381 AltGr still activates Alt shortcuts. (I don't have any shortcut set to Ctrl+Alt because PDF-xce does not distinguish between Ctrl+Alt and AltGr yet either
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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, MedBooster

Thank you for clarifying that. I have spoken with the Dev team and they will be looking further into this to see what we can find.

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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by MedBooster »

Any news?
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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by Jordan - Tracker Supp »

Hello MedBooster,

There are no resent updates regarding this ticket.

Best regards,
Jordan
Best regards,
Jordan
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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by MedBooster »

Couldn't this be "fixed" by not allowing keyboard input by blocking Alt keyboard shortcut input when you're typing in a text field? (since AltGr, wrongly, activates Alt + (key) shortcuts?)
After all.. to get out of the text field you can always just press Esc.

Though it would preferred for PDF-XCE itself to understand the difference between Ctrl+Alt and AltGr (but most importantly not confusing Alt with AltGr)
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Re: AltGr issue on character input {[]}@ especially Nordic/German layouts

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello MedBooster,

I can not comment on what the possible 'fixes' are - however we do have the ticket, and our developers will be looking at this as soon as possible!

Kind regards,
Stefan
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