Editing text troubles

[balmydrizzle]

I run into some problems when editing textbox and hope some experienced people can help me:

1.How to prevent/disable text block auto merged?

I like the textboxs to be indenpedent so that I can edit them one by one. Say I originally edit text blocks A & B.Some other day when I open the same file, I find text blocks A & B become one large text block and make editing them become harder since they have different text styles.

2.Sometimes, bold texts lose bold when turn them to italic.

One example is: I edit an English pdf file and try to translate it to Chinese version (I'm using MicrosoftJenHei Chinese font). On some text block, I change English text to chinese text and make them bold. It looks fine with bold effect on screen. But when I change the text to italic, the bold view is gone. If I disable the italic, the bold view is back. Why does this happen? How can I avoid it?

3. Differnt text blocks with same font face have different effect of bold and italic

This is actually another issue following previous issue. A workaround I use for previous problem is: I find another text block A whose font is MicrosoftJenHei but have both bold and italic view. So I copy some text from text block A and copy them into another text block B who has problem of previous issue. Then I delete original text and retype them following the just-copied text from text block A. In the way, I keep the bold and italic view well again. But why text blocks A &B, both are in same font, have different effects when bold and italic existing together?

4.Can I just paste text into another text block without its original text style?

I copy some text from text block A and paste them into another text block B. But it brings in the original text style from text block A and make the txt style in text block B a mess. How can I only paste the text only? The current workaround I use is: Pasting in to text editor, then copy from it and paste to target text block.

Thanks for any helpful information.

[Will - Tracker Supp]

Hi balmydrizzle,

Thanks for the post!

1.How to prevent/disable text block auto merged?

I like the textboxs to be indenpedent so that I can edit them one by one. Say I originally edit text blocks A & B.Some other day when I open the same file, I find text blocks A & B become one large text block and make editing them become harder since they have different text styles.

I'm afraid that there isn't any way to control this at this time.

2.Sometimes, bold texts lose bold when turn them to italic.

One example is: I edit an English pdf file and try to translate it to Chinese version (I'm using MicrosoftJenHei Chinese font). On some text block, I change English text to chinese text and make them bold. It looks fine with bold effect on screen. But when I change the text to italic, the bold view is gone. If I disable the italic, the bold view is back. Why does this happen? How can I avoid it?

3. Differnt text blocks with same font face have different effect of bold and italic

This is actually another issue following previous issue. A workaround I use for previous problem is: I find another text block A whose font is MicrosoftJenHei but have both bold and italic view. So I copy some text from text block A and copy them into another text block B who has problem of previous issue. Then I delete original text and retype them following the just-copied text from text block A. In the way, I keep the bold and italic view well again. But why text blocks A &B, both are in same font, have different effects when bold and italic existing together?

I've not personally encountered these issues before and it's likely that this is specific to the files/fonts. Can you please send an example file for us to test with?

4.Can I just paste text into another text block without its original text style?

I copy some text from text block A and paste them into another text block B. But it brings in the original text style from text block A and make the txt style in text block B a mess. How can I only paste the text only? The current workaround I use is: Pasting in to text editor, then copy from it and paste to target text block.

I'm afraid that this isn't currently possible, but there is already a feature request in our system for this (RT-2881). I've asked for an update to see if there has been any movement here.

Thanks,

[Jensen Head]

1.How to prevent/disable text block auto merged?

I'm afraid that there isn't any way to control this at this time.

Still?

4.Can I just paste text into another text block without its original text style?

For this I use the Yandex Punto Switcher application (having blocked all network connections for it). It has the ability to configure hotkeys for the "Paste text without formatting" action.

[Willy Van Nuffel]

The "Paste as Plain Text"-command has been introduced since 04-04-2019 with the 8.0.330.0 release.
It is available after Copy and a right-mouse-click while editing text.
There is no default shortcut for it, but you can assign a key-combination if you like.

Kind regards.


https://www.pdf-xchange.com/produc ... #8.0.330.0

[Tracker Supp-Stefan]

[SJH]

> 1.How to prevent/disable text block auto merged?
>> I'm afraid that there isn't any way to control this at this time.

I *despise* 'Text Block' auto merging with a passion

It seems that a certain separation distance between 'Text Blocks', as
well as a certain positioning, or dimensions of the two blocks w.r.t. each
other, avoids merging. If someone knows the exact separation distance,
juxtaposition, etc that avoids text block auto merging, I would be grateful
for the information.

One work around I am using, is to place a 'Text Box' (comment) between
two text blocks. The 'Text Box' is just a replacement for the text that would
normally be part of one of the 'Text Blocks'. It only serves as a distance
separator for the text blocks that I don't want merged. Be aware that
the 'Text Box' does not stop a merge. If you move one of the 'Text Blocks'
over the 'Text Box' towards the other, the 'Text Blocks' will merge. The
'Text Box' just fills, and demarks the empty space, required to avoid a
merge. It may work, but it is just one more time waster you don't need

While 'Undo' is your friend, you must be scrupulously vigilant, with every
'Text Block' move, so a 'Text Box' merge doesn't go down the chain.

[Tracker Supp-Stefan]

Hello SJH,

Thanks you sharing your emotions, however out text block grouping is going to stay as it is for now. We are constantly working on improvements but I do not have any news at the moment regarding this text grouping.

We do also appreciate you sharing the solution you have found, and thank you for sharing it with the other forum members.

Kind regards,
Stefan

[SJH]

Hi Stefan,

> Thanks you sharing your emotions..

Mock emotion but... Ah yes, all those hours of recreating text blocks, which were blown to smithereens by a, too close, encounter.. what larks. I should also have underlined the OP's comment, that you may think you got away with a close escape, only to find out, when you reopen the file, (and can't back out), you didn't.

> I do not have any news at the moment regarding this text grouping.

I'm certain, that the brilliant developers could, give us an option to turn off text block merging, with a mere, snap of the fingers. That they don't, makes it clear, that they have higher priority issues, to snap their fingers at.

Apparently only the OP and I, care about this issue. Which made me wonder why other's didn't find this behavior as insidious, as I. So I had a fresh look at text block merging and discovered that the horrific behavior it used to exhibit is gone I won't go into detail, but it is *far* easier to recover from a merge, today, than it was, as I remember, from the past. I would still turn auto-merging, off, if I could. Personally, if I want to merge text, I'll do it deliberately, with cut and paste, and not have the aggravation of merging occurring, by a chance proximity. But I now understand why no-one else cares and why it's a non-issue for the developers.

> We do also appreciate you sharing the solution you have found.
To say that reminiscence, was a 4th rate kludge would have been way too kind. In the same vein, I also used red rectangles, around highly formatted text blocks, to indicate the danger zone.

That being said, while investigating text block merging, I believe I found an inclusion, that makes individual text blocks, immune from merging. Need to refine/test a bit more, but maybe an actual workaround?

Thoroughly enjoy your good nature and sense of humour
SJH

[TrackerSupp-Daniel]

Hello, SJH

I am glad that you understand there are some priorities here. We do plan to improve how text editing works in the future, but some aspects are required to some degree, automatic forming of text "blocks" is one such issue. To really show why this is important, lets take a look at a larger file which many people may be accessing on the daily, such as the Adobe JS API manual: http://dev.datalogics.com/cookbook/docu ... erence.pdf

In brief, PDF is not a "flow based" format, it is strictly coordinate based, and as such, each individual object on the page is unrelated to those nearby it, and editing one thing does not have a direct impact on the others. Editing "as blocks" is something every modern PDF editing application (that i have encountered) has enabled by default, and with good reason.

In the case or the example file above, the issue is not quite as pronounced as I have seen it in some clients personal files (which I do not keep copies of, nor could i share), but each line of text is often broken into multiple separate text objects, in some cases, each word, number, or even individual letters, can be its own separate text "object". If you were to try and edit without text as blockes enabled, you would quickly realize that there is no capacity for word wrapping, no ability to influence the objects around the one word, or letter you have selected. You can see this happening in the "quickbars" link on page 35 of the reference manual linked above, please also see my attached GIF (click to play animation):

PDFXEdit_PEmbL9CWkI.gif

If this handling were the default, we would not be a PDF software with a name that was proliferated enough to lead a successful business. I understand if your use case is one where these form of editing is useful, but it is not something which we can make a default, and you will for the forseeable future need to manually enable this option for the moments when you feel a need to move text without bringing along any "nearby" blocks that might have incorrectly been assumed to be "close enough" to count as a single entity.

Kind regards,

[SJH]

Hi Daniel,
I can't say, how much I appreciated your super swift, well considered and extensive, reply. I particularly admire your use of a GIF, as a very useful, economic, visual, elaboration.

I read and reread your message several times, I examined each of the 269 images in your GIF, I read all 779 pages of your reference (just kidding , have only read pg 33-36 so far), and could find, no commonality, between your message and mine.

However I am incredibly obtuse, so that could explain it. Equally I am, an incredibly bad communicator, and perhaps that was more the problem this time. After all your effort, let me offer my sincere apologies, for pointing you in the wrong direction.

SJH

[TrackerSupp-Daniel]

Hello, SJH

Your posts here were lamenting how nearby text boxes are "auto-merged", unless i have misunderstood. is that correct?
My post was under that assumption, and was simply intended to explain why this "auto-grouping" exists, and clarify on the point that if you wish to disable it, you can do so, but you will not be able to "edit" the text, only move it around.

As Stefan mentioned, the "edit text" tool is not perfect, and as you have found, it is sometimes a little bit "too sensitive" with its proximity detection, resulting in the text becoming a single larger block. You can undo this easily by disabling the "edit text as blocks" function, and then selecting and moving those separate items far enough away to break the "merge". Unfortunately, if we wish to offer any form of intelligent text editing, with word wrapping and the like, an automatic text block detection system is required due to how PDF is formatted.

Kind regards,

[SJH]

Hi again Daniel,

Not sure what I said that made you think I have anything but good to say about "editing in blocks"? On the contrary 'Edit text elements in blocks' is my life's blood. To this point, I'd say that I never edit text elements on their own.

My definition of "Auto Text Block Merging" is: The merging of two text blocks into one, without authority to do so, from the user (hence the 'Auto').

From my (albeit ignorant), let's say this is what happens, point of view "Auto Text Block Merging" is essential always off. The 'Master Switch' for it, is one of the switches that simultaneously gets thrown when you select "Edit text elements in Blocks". However "Auto Text Block Merging" will remain off until a whole series of switches beyond it's 'Master Switch' get switched on, at that point, however seldom it may be, an 'Auto Text Block Merge' will occur. IOW "Auto Text Block Merging" is off most of the time that you are "Editing text elements in blocks", with absolutely no ill effects.

The fact that the developers put such effort into setting up all the feed-backs to multiple switches, tells me, they did so, believing that they were providing a feature. I can perfectly understand why some might consider it so. I can perfectly understand why some (including myself) would consider it an aggravation. The OP wasn't asking for the elimination of "Auto Text Block Merging", he was just asking for access to one of the switches, in order to prevent it from turning on. He wants to decide whether "Auto Text Block Merging" seldom gets turned on (activated), or can't get turned on (activated).

All the best,
SJH

[TrackerSupp-Daniel]

Hello, SJH

I think there might still be a misunderstanding here. "text blocks" do not exist in pdf, at all. The "blocks" you see on the screen are automatically determined based on each of the individual text content items, and their relative proximity to each other. If for example, you have two paragraphs, each would be made up of anywhere from 4 to 500 separate "text content items", and any pdf reader you look at, parses those, and decides that they are in close enough proximity to emulate them being a single item.

When you move the block around, so too, do the text content items within them, as a group, there is no feature designed to facilitate merging of text blocks, nor any fancy logic like what you seem to think is happening behind the scenes to recalculate it. When the edit tool is enabled, the text objects in the document are all checked for proximity to each other. If for example, I disable edit as blocks and move one section of text down a good portion, it might be included in the block below it, instead of the one above this allows me to control the process to some degree, as you can see in this gif.

PDFXEdit_3mWsGUNBu8.gif

Following that, you will see the same happen when moving two blocks near each other, because the content items within them are entering or exiting that proximity:

PDFXEdit_7pRijplojj.gif

But this is not something that can be controlled, disabling this "auto-merge" as you call it, is only achievable by disabling text blocks entirely, or ensuring there is a notable gap between content items.

Kind regards,