Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

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David.P
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Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by David.P »

Hi forum and Tracker support team,

It happens to me quite often that I work with PDF documents with hundreds to thousands of internal links. Thereby, it is not uncommon that all or an unknown number of those links have a certain (fixed) page zoom factor assigned to them, like for example 78% zoom. However, usually it is more convenient and desirable that all links should have the "Inherit Zoom" property instead, in order not to change the current zoom factor of the document if clicked.

To my knowledge there is currently no PDF software that can change (only) the zoom factor of PDF hyperlinks if more than one link is selected. However, I think that programmatically, this shouldn't be too difficult. It therefore would be great if this could be accepted as a feature request.

Image

Thanks very much for considering,
Best regards
David
Last edited by David.P on Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:44 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Batch edit link zoom level

Post by Dimitar - Tracker Supp »

Hello David,

Probably it will be an easy task to do but this depends on our developers.

We will forward your request to them and keep you posted how your request goes.

FR: 4913 - Batch editing of the zoom level links

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Re: Batch edit link zoom level

Post by David.P »

Thanks very much Dimitar for your fast action. Looking forward to the implementation of this feature!

For completeness, the desire to provide this feature has a long history, particularly with respect to bookmarks, but also with respect to links. While, to my knowledge, there are a handful of (expensive) specialized software tools that can accomplish this, the feature has not yet been implemented into any mainstream PDF software.

Concluding, I'd politely ask to apply this feature request also to the batch editing of bookmarks target zoom levels, in exactly the same way as displayed above with respect to links.

Best regards
David
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Re: Batch edit Bookmarks and Links zoom level

Post by Sasha - Tracker Dev Team »

Hello David,

There is a Change Bookmark Zoom Factor command in the Bookmarks tab.

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Re: Batch edit Bookmarks and Links zoom level

Post by David.P »

Whoa Sasha, indeed there is!

(It doesn't seem to be in the bookmark pane's "Tools" menu by default -- but can be added via menu customization)
ImageImage

Thanks very much for having added this little marvel! (which no one else has:)

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Re: Batch edit Bookmarks and Links zoom level

Post by Dimitar - Tracker Supp »

:-)
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Re: Batch edit Bookmarks and Links zoom level

Post by Sasha - Tracker Dev Team »

Hello David,

Well it's a part of the Bookmarks plugin that has it's own tab - Bookmarks. We can add these commands to the dropdown menus, Options and so on, but this can potentially lead to overgrown menus that many of the users won't find useful. So customization it is :)
By the way, I was thinking about updating the Links functionality - something like we have with bookmarks now. Be free to share your ideas with us (especially that would be useful in your everyday curriculum), so that we can analyze this more from the end-user perspective. :wink:

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Re: Batch edit Bookmarks and Links zoom level

Post by David.P »

Hello Alex,

thank you very much for your reply with your additional information about the Bookmarks plugin.

I absolutely agree that not every possible command should be found in the standard menus by default.

With respect to the 'Links' functionality, it would be great if this could also be updated, perhaps as you mentioned in the form of an own 'Links' plug-in.

As already sketched above, it would be amazing (and totally exclusive in the PDF software market), if 'Link' properties (same for 'Bookmark' properties) would remain fully editable also when multiple links (or bookmarks, respectively) are selected:
Image

This is partially already possible, as can be seen from the below screenshot showing the basic 'Link Properties' dialog when two links with somewhat different styling properties are selected:
Image

In this case, the "Border Width" property of the two links is different, which is why this is specified as "Mixed" in the dialog. Nonetheless, it is still possible to change all properties of both selected links at the same time. When doing so, if the "Border Width" property is not touched, it can remain different for the two links, while for example the color of both links can be changed from blue to some other color, without affecting any of the other properties, be they common or different for the selected links.

However, it is currently not possible to invoke the "Edit Action List" when more than one link is selected (the same goes for bookmarks). Therefore, it is also not possible to edit or change any actions in the Action List that multiple selected links might have in common, for example the Zoom Level of the selected links, or any actions that might have been added to the selected links (or bookmarks), like for example "Execute a Command":
Image

Therefore and summarizing, it would be 100% perfect if all "Link" and "Bookmark"-related dialogs could be invoked and all properties therein could be changed also in a case when multiple links (or bookmarks) are selected.

In this case, i.e. when multiple links or bookmarks, respectively, are selected, properties like differing target page numbers simply would be specified as "Mixed" in the respective dialog, and if not changed, every link or bookmark would keep his own specific properties, like for example his own page number.

Thank you very much already for considering this possible refinement of the links and bookmarks functionality,
Best regards
David
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by David.P »

Hello Forum and Tracker Support Team,

It would be great if the possibility to edit all link or bookmark properties, even when multiple links or bookmarks are selected, could be made available soon.

For example, I have a file with thousands of links and bookmarks. Using p. 1835 as an example, it can be seen that there are numerous links pointing to this page from various places in the document:

PDF-XChange Editor Edit Links ani.png

What I would like to do now is to rewrite all 24 links pointing to page 1835 so that they point to page 1642 instead. At the moment, this is only possible by selecting each link, opening the link properties, and editing the link destination for every single link. This requires about five mouse clicks for each link, and the entry of the number 1642 into the link target dialog in each case. For the 24 links shown above, this means 120 clicks and 24 times entering the number 1642.

If it were instead possible, when multiple links are selected, to be able to edit not only the formatting of all selected links at the same time, but also the link target, then only 5 mouse clicks would be required instead of 120.

The same applies to bookmarks. Here it would also be excellent if several or all bookmarks could be selected, and then all properties of the bookmarks could be edited concurrently.

In other words, the desired behavior would be similar to selecting text with different formatting in Microsoft Word, and then opening the Font formatting dialog and applying certain identical properties to text with differing other properties:

Word 365 Character formatting ani.png

In this case, too, it is possible to apply any formatting to the entire selection, but only the formatting that actually has been changed will be applied to the entire selected text. All other (also differing) formatting or text properties of the selected text will be preserved.

Many thanks for considering implementing this (imho) killer feature.

Best regards
David
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, David.P

This is not likely to be something that I could promise to see any form of swift implementation for, and It will likely still be some time before it sees the light, but I have spoken with the dev team and they are convinced that this could be a useful feature to implement in the future. In light of that, a feature request ticket has been made:

RT#6448: FR: Edit multiple links destination/action properties while retaining unchanged properties.

Kind regards,
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by David.P »

Thank you Daniel, for creating the ticket – very much looking forward to seeing this feature hopefully soon.

Of course, I'm always thankful for any other possible ideas anybody might have how to bulk edit link destinations, in the meantime.

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David
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, David.P

the best way I can think of to handle bulk editing in the meantime would be named destinations. If you create a single destination, you can then point all your links that need to have a "shared target" to that destination instead. This way, if you need to change that point in the future, you only need to edit the one destination.

It doesn't help right now, as your links are all pointing to their own internally recorded location, but once you have it setup, that will be much easier to handle going forward.

Kind regards,
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by David.P »

Thank you, Daniel.

How do I point a link to a named destination? It seems that the Link Action dialog does not provide "Named Destinations" as a Link target, or action, respectively:
image.png

Edit: Never mind, I found it:
image(1).png

However, this does not seem to be feasible in my case even if I'd use Named Destinations from the start. I would have to set up a Named Destination for every page in the document, and when creating a link, instead of simply navigating to the target page and setting the link there, the link creation process would be way more complicated.

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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, David.P

The purpose of named destinations is not to have one for every page, but to name specific locations, similar to bookmarks, which can easily be references back to later. In essence you would only use these for links which you intend to have multiple pointing at the same location, for example, if you needed to have a link on every page pointing back to the start of the ToC, you could have a destination names Table of Contents, which you set all these links to. Now, if you add extra pages, or move the ToC to a new location, you only need to update that one destination, instead of every individual link that previously said "page 3" with no other context.

It is not a perfect solution, but it is the only option I could come up with when you asked for alternatives in the meantime. Perhaps you will be better off manually editing each link until we can offer this bulk editing tool, but I must disappoint and inform you that it is not likely to be something we see "Soon".

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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by rakunavi »

Hello David.P,
David.P wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:18 pm What I would like to do now is to rewrite all 24 links pointing to page 1835 so that they point to page 1642 instead. At the moment, this is only possible by selecting each link, opening the link properties, and editing the link destination for every single link. This requires about five mouse clicks for each link, and the entry of the number 1642 into the link target dialog in each case. For the 24 links shown above, this means 120 clicks and 24 times entering the number 1642.
If I were in the same situation, I would use the Export Links feature. Specifically, run the Export Links feature in the Links pane to generate an XFDF file for all the links. Open the file in text editor and replace all the <XYZ Page="1834" to <XYZ Page="1641". Finally, after deleting all links in the Links pane, import the modified XFDF file using the Import Links feature. Note that the number of pages in the XFDF file is the actual number of pages minus one.

Also, although it might not be helpful, I use the following procedure to set named destinations to all pages of PDF file.

rakunavi wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:10 am I find it more convenient to be able to set up links from other files based on page numbers. Therefore, I set up named destinations for all pages in advance according to regular rules such as page numbers or article numbers in laws (BOOK_001, BOOK_002, BOOK_003...). The specific steps are as follows.

  1. Assign numbers to all pages using the "Bates Numbering" feature.
  2. Add a temporary bookmark for all pages based on the assigned bates number by using "Bookmark Every Nth Page" feature.
  3. Convert the added bookmark to a named destination by using Convert to Named Destinations feature
  4. Delete temporary bookmarks and bates numbers
It is convenient to create links to external files with named destinations so that you can be flexible when pages are added or reordered in the linked file. Since all of the PDFs I handle have the original book or document, and the page numbers of those are immutable and used when communicating with third parties, I can manage them rationally by assigning named destinations based on those page numbers.

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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by David.P »

Thank you Daniel and rakunavi,
rakunavi wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:58 am If I were in the same situation, I would use the Export Links feature. Specifically, run the Export Links feature in the Links pane to generate an XFDF file for all the links. Open the file in text editor and replace all the <XYZ Page="1834" to <XYZ Page="1641".
Yes I would do that too, but unfortunately most page numbers in the form of 'XYZ Page="xxxx"' in the *.fdf files differ from the corresponding actual page numbers "xxxx" in the PDF. It is therefore difficult to determine which page number in the *.fdf file is related to what actual page number and thus has to be changed.
rakunavi wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:58 amAlso, although it might not be helpful, I use the following procedure to set named destinations to all pages of PDF file.
Thanks for this suggestion.

However, even if I create a named destination for each page, I probably won't get very far with the named destinations approach.

In my work with PDF files, I constantly add pages and constantly create internal links between different text locations in the PDF file. I do so by displaying the document in split view twice side by side, and then linking from a text selection in the left document view to a page shown in the right document view. This only takes a few seconds and does not require invoking the advanced link dialog.
viewtopic.php?p=89510#p89510

This extremely fast procedure doesn't seem to be possible when using named destinations.

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David
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, David.P

In that case I am not sure what more to offer, but I do hope you have a nice day!

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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by rakunavi »

Hi David.P, thank you for comment.
David.P wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 3:01 pm Yes I would do that too, but unfortunately most page numbers in the form of 'XYZ Page="xxxx"' in the *.fdf files differ from the corresponding actual page numbers "xxxx" in the PDF. It is therefore difficult to determine which page number in the *.fdf file is related to what actual page number and thus has to be changed.
The Thumbnails pane, for example, may display logical page numbers depending on the settings, but the Links pane always displays the actual page number, which should correspond perfectly to the page number in the XFDF file, except for the one-page minus point, but I am sure my understanding is wrong somehow.

In my previous comment, I wrote <XYZ Page="1834", but depending on how you specify the link, the 'XYZ' part may be 'Fit' or 'FitR', etc. In any case, since regular expressions can be used, I personally think that it is possible to use a text editor to replace them all at once. Also, when doing this kind of processing, it is easier to handle XFDF files instead of FDF files. It may be possible to handle FDF files, but I personally prefer XFDF files, which can be easily edited in a text editor and whose contents are easy to understand.

I am sorry that it is beyond my understanding and I can no longer keep up with the topics, but I will keep trying to get as close to your level of knowledge as possible.
David.P wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 3:01 pm This extremely fast procedure doesn't seem to be possible when using named destinations.
Since build 365, you can now specify a link destination by double-clicking the destination in the Named Destinations pane, just like in Acrobat. This has made it quite convenient when the page number of the link destination is known in advance and there is no need to check the contents of the link destination. Of course, for this kind of use, all pages must be assigned a named destination in advance according to certain rules. I do not believe that this usage is effective in all situations, but it is quite useful in certain situations.

  • This is a GIF animation. Click to play.
    This is a GIF animation. Click to play.
Please forgive my off topic comment.

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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by David.P »

Hello rakunavi,
rakunavi wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:15 am Since build 365, you can now specify a link destination by double-clicking the destination in the Named Destinations pane, just like in Acrobat. This has made it quite convenient when the page number of the link destination is known in advance and there is no need to check the contents of the link destination.
Thanks, that is good to know!

rakunavi wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:15 am
David.P wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 3:01 pm Yes I would do that too, but unfortunately most page numbers in the form of 'XYZ Page="xxxx"' in the *.fdf files differ from the corresponding actual page numbers "xxxx" in the PDF. It is therefore difficult to determine which page number in the *.fdf file is related to what actual page number and thus has to be changed.
The Thumbnails pane, for example, may display logical page numbers depending on the settings, but the Links pane always displays the actual page number, which should correspond perfectly to the page number in the XFDF file, except for the one-page minus point
This could indeed solve the issue.

@Tracker Support, can you please confirm that the page numbers in an XFDF file are always starting with "0" for the actual page 1 of the corresponding PDF?

In other words, in below snip from an XFDF file, <Fit Page="3" stands for a link that has the PDF page 4 as target, and <XYZ Page="6" Left="0" Top="-2.27909" for a link that has PDF page 7 as target?

If that is true, it could indeed be quite easy to parse the XFDF file and replace all link targets to e.g. page 1835 with targets to page 1642, and so on. At the same time, it would probably be possible to change the zoom ratio of all links to "fit page" because that's actually what it should be in that case.

Best Regards
David

Code: Select all

><link Highlight="Push" coords="113.330002,673.209839,398.600952,673.209839,398.600952,684.249878,113.330002,684.249878" page="1" date="D:20220826142729+02'00'" flags="print" name="4e3534b6-dbb8-4b55-918553281a3e782f" rect="113.330002,673.209839,398.600952,684.249878" color="#0000FF" width="2" style="underline"
><OnActivation
><Action
><GoTo
><Dest
><XYZ Page="6" Left="0" Top="-2.27909"
/></Dest
></GoTo
></Action
></OnActivation
></link


><link Highlight="Push" coords="113.330002,686.827209,404.840973,686.827209,404.840973,701.135193,113.330002,701.135193" page="1" date="D:20220913101710+02'00'" flags="print" name="bfc510e5-d849-4c07-91075919e97d98ae" rect="113.330002,686.827209,404.840973,701.135193" color="#0000FF" width="2" style="underline"
><OnActivation
><Action
><GoTo
><Dest
><Fit Page="3"
/></Dest
></GoTo
></Action
></OnActivation
></link
Edit:
David.P wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:53 pm At the same time, it would probably be possible to change the zoom ratio of all links to "fit page" because that's actually what it should be in that case.
This part has already worked by using the following Regex in Notepad++.

Search expression:
(note this intentionally does not find links that do not have any target rectangle specified, i.e. links where the target zoom is set to "inherit all", because these are not supposed to be replaced in the present case):

Code: Select all

><XYZ Page="(\d+)" Left="[^"]*"[^>]*>
Replace by:

Code: Select all

><Fit Page="\1"\n/>
Edit: Be careful when doing similar things with the current form of XFDF files. Although improved, the above RegEx still could be faulty, see this discussion.
Last edited by David.P on Thu May 04, 2023 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by David.P »

By the way, why do XFDF files created by PDF-XChange Editor somehow have a barely legible notation as follows:

Code: Select all

><link Highlight="None" coords="227.959991,154.851257,291.132874,154.851257,291.132874,165.726257,227.959991,165. 726257" page="37" date="D:20220531194817+02'00'" flags="print" name="e0ca6f5e-5257-4a51-9c08256cab155cae" rect="227.959991,154.851257,291.132874,165.726257" color="#0000FF" width="2" style="underline"
><OnActivation
><Action
><GoTo
><Dest
><XYZ Page="652" Left="240.035843" Top="1258.238595"
/></Dest
><GoTo
</action
></OnActivation
></link
>
Surely all the line breaks are in the wrong place here?
Shouldn't the file actually be laid out like this instead:

Code: Select all

<link Highlight="None" coords="227.959991,154.851257,291.132874,154.851257,291.132874,165.726257,227.959991,165. 726257" page="37" date="D:20220531194817+02'00'" flags="print" name="e0ca6f5e-5257-4a51-9c08256cab155cae" rect="227.959991,154.851257,291.132874,165.726257" color="#0000FF" width="2" style="underline">
<OnActivation>
<Action>
<GoTo>
<Dest>
<XYZ Page="652" Left="240.035843" Top="1258.238595"/>
</Dest>
</GoTo>
</Action>
</OnActivation>
</link>
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by rakunavi »

Hi David.P, thank you for your comment.
Sorry for interrupting your waiting for a reply from Tracker.
David.P wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:53 pm @Tracker Support, can you please confirm that the page numbers in an XFDF file are always starting with "0" for the actual page 1 of the corresponding PDF?
Not only in XFDF, but also in JavaScript, pages start at page 0, so I guess it is a common principle inside PDF. I have processed hundreds of thousands of links and have never had a problem with that understanding, so you can trust me on that. Otherwise, a lot of programs I've built would have been wasted. Well, the reliability of my comments is garbage, and Tracker's assurances are tremendous, so I would appreciate a response from Tracker on that point. The Links pane itself is not very functional, but the export and import features make it infinitely useful.
David.P wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 3:07 pm Surely all the line breaks are in the wrong place here?
As for the coding style of the XML closing tag, I think it's because it's somewhat easier to program, because when you want to add some option, you can simply add a new option after the existing line. No matter what programming language you use, you can compare the process of inserting text to that of adding it. Adding should require fewer steps, albeit only a few. It may save computer resources slightly, though not by much in terms of modern CPU power. The rest would be programmer preference. It is true that it is somewhat difficult for humans to read, but I believe that prioritizing internal processing ultimately led to this coding style. Not only PDF-XChange Editor, but also Acrobat outputs XFDF in the same style.

Best regards,
rakunavi
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by David.P »

Thank you rakunavi,
rakunavi wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 10:53 pm
David.P wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:53 pm @Tracker Support, can you please confirm that the page numbers in an XFDF file are always starting with "0" for the actual page 1 of the corresponding PDF?
Not only in XFDF, but also in JavaScript, pages start at page 0, so I guess it is a common principle inside PDF. I have processed hundreds of thousands of links and have never had a problem with that understanding, so you can trust me on that. Otherwise, a lot of programs I've built would have been wasted.
That is good news. I'm looking forward to rewriting those link targets soon!
rakunavi wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 10:53 pm
David.P wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 3:07 pmSurely all the line breaks are in the wrong place here?
As for the coding style of the XML closing tag, I think it's because it's somewhat easier to program, because when you want to add some option, you can simply add a new option after the existing line. No matter what programming language you use, you can compare the process of inserting text to that of adding it. Adding should require fewer steps, albeit only a few. It may save computer resources slightly, though not by much in terms of modern CPU power. The rest would be programmer preference. It is true that it is somewhat difficult for humans to read, but I believe that prioritizing internal processing ultimately led to this coding style. Not only PDF-XChange Editor, but also Acrobat outputs XFDF in the same style.
Not a programmer myself, other than a few Autohotkey scripts, I still believe that this formatting is strange. Isn't one of the main purposes of XML files the idea to be human-readable/editable?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML#:~:text=Extensible,readable.

I strongly believe that those XFDF files should actually look like this:

Code: Select all

<link Highlight="None" coords="227....">
  <OnActivation>
    <Action>
      <GoTo>
        <Dest>
          <XYZ Page="652" Left="240.035843" Top="1258.238595"/>
        </Dest>
      </GoTo>
    </Action>
  </OnActivation>
</link>
...instead of this:

Code: Select all

><link Highlight="None" coords="227...."
><OnActivation
><Action
><GoTo
><Dest
><XYZ Page="652" Left="240.035843" Top="1258.238595"
/></Dest
><GoTo
</action
></OnActivation
></link
>
Probably this really is an old bug originating from Adobe.
No one would intentionally create XML files with such a garbled structure 💁🏽‍♂️

image.png
https://passyworldofict.com/programming/programming22

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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by rakunavi »

Hi David.P, thank you for your comment.

If we are talking about XML in general, as you say, it should be human readable and editable. If you put tabs in the right places and end tags in natural positions, you will have the ideal XML that looks like a textbook, as you have shown.

On the other hand, as you know, Acrobat is the original format for XFDF, and if you look at the history of PDF on Wikipedia, it says that XFDF was supported in PDF 1.5 released in 2003, replacing the XML support in PDF 1.4 released in 2001.

  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_PDF
I forget what coding style Acrobat output XFDF in then, but I suspect it is probably not much different than it is now. Even if the style adopted by Acrobat is unacceptable to the general public, if it works reliably, and if software companies are already working to ensure compatibility with it, then I think it is important to adhere to the style adopted by Acrobat in order to ensure broad compatibility. Software compatibility can cause problems even when there is only a one-bit difference, so I understand the temptation to think as conservatively as possible. I imagine that Tracker also uses the same style to ensure maximum compatibility with the XFDF format output by Acrobat.

At the end of the day, the theme of this issue is not about the PDF-XChange Editor, but rather about why the original Acrobat writes end tags in an uncomfortable style. you say it's an old bug, but I don't think it's a bug as long as both Acrobat and PDF-XChange Editor are working properly. It is simply that they are not beautiful by the standards of ordinary people living in the modern world.

The performance of the hardware on which PDF viewers operate ranges from top to bottom, and even electronic dictionaries on the bottom of the scale can run. I think every developer has a desire to use limited hardware resources to the limit and release software to the world. Although it has nothing to do with XFDF files, I have seen XML files exchanged over the network that were created with a policy of removing all tabs and line feeds, and using as little network bandwidth as possible. It is not human readable. I personally think that such a thing should be left to the compression function of the network equipment. However, if the goal is to make network performance a top priority, then the evaluation is excellent because it is perfectly suited for that purpose.

Going back to the XFDF, it would have been normal for Adobe at that time, more than 20 years ago, to write in the style that we are talking about here. It would certainly be ideal if everything could be rewritten in a beautiful coding style. However, it remains to be seen whether PDF applications that have been released by various companies, including Tracker, for more than 20 years will be able to handle the beautiful style of XFDF without any problems, at least to the same extent as current XFDF. I guess we will have to weigh the risks involved with that versus the benefits of meeting user expectations for increased readability.

I still use Acrobat 8.0 from 2006 and Acrobat 10.0 from 2010 in combination with the latest version of PDF-XChange Editor. Although Tracker has announced that older versions are buggy and should not be used, I use them in the right places based on a proper understanding of their advantages and disadvantages. Of course, I have never claimed any claims arising from the older versions. However, I am grateful to PDF-XChange Editor for its compatibility with such older versions. I believe this is due to Tracker's development attitude of adhering strictly to PDF standards, which they always talk about.

As long-time PDF-XChange Editor forum reader David P. knows well, releasing a new feature or fixing a bug often leads to a bug in something else. At least at this point, aside from user readability, if it does not affect the behavior of the application, and if users are not reporting any bugs other than readability, then I can understand the choice to keep the current coding style, or even the old Acrobat style.

Thank you for taking the time to read this message.

Best regards,
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by David.P »

All true rakunavi, what you are saying about not breaking compatibility.

I still can't believe that this is intentional.

Even in the (then) official "XML Data Format Specification" document of 2007 they use the human-readable formatting for XFDF in the chapter "Writing XFDF" (and in many places throughout the entire document):

image.png
https://www.immagic.com/eLibrary/ARCHIVES/TECH/ADOBE/A070914X.pdf

The same can be found in the current ISO 19444 which seems to be the successor of the above, rather old specification:
image(1).png
https://cdn.standards.iteh.ai/samples/74272/f929ccb83a4142da9601936214cc5600/ISO-19444-1-2019.pdf

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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by rakunavi »

Hi David.P, thank you for your comment.
David.P wrote: Sun Apr 30, 2023 3:43 pm Even in the (then) official "XML Data Format Specification" document of 2007 they use the human-readable formatting for XFDF in the chapter "Writing XFDF" (and in many places throughout the entire document):
...
The same can be found in the current ISO 19444 which seems to be the successor of the above, rather old specification:
I have the exact same two files you showed (even the download URLs are the same!) and I was writing my last post while reading them. I feel very sympathetic to you because the actions you take are very similar to me. However, the impression I got was quite the opposite: the details of what we are talking about are not defined, and I felt that the way it is written, it is only natural that there would be differences in interpretation of the standard.

I will explain below with specific pages.

Example 1

  • First, below is an figure taken from the p.5 (actual p.13) that is same as you cited the image from. Note the red and blue squares. I have also drawn a supplementary line in green to make it easier to count the number of indented letters. The green numbers beside each line represent the number of characters as counted by the human eye, while the lower numbers in parentheses represent the number of characters as recorded in the PDF data. This example shows that two characters have been indented. Please note the red, blue, and green comments, as I will explain below in comparison with this page.

    • Adobe, XML Forms Data Format Specification, 2007, p.5<br />https://www.immagic.com/eLibrary/ARCHIVES/TECH/ADOBE/A070914X.pdf
      Adobe, XML Forms Data Format Specification, 2007, p.5
      https://www.immagic.com/eLibrary/ARCHIVES/TECH/ADOBE/A070914X.pdf
Example 2

  • Please see p.8 (p.16 in the actual page). Note the red rectangle: In the first example, the "/>" was at the beginning of the line (with indentation), but in the second example, it is at the end of the line. Which is correct in terms of the PDF standard? The second line has no indentation, the third line has a one-character indentation, and the fifth line has a four-character indentation (five characters in the data).

    • Adobe, XML Forms Data Format Specification, 2007, p.8<br />https://www.immagic.com/eLibrary/ARCHIVES/TECH/ADOBE/A070914X.pdf
      Adobe, XML Forms Data Format Specification, 2007, p.8
      https://www.immagic.com/eLibrary/ARCHIVES/TECH/ADOBE/A070914X.pdf

Example 3

  • Please see p.10 (p.18 in the actual page). Note the blue rectangle around the ">" at the beginning of the line in the first example (after the indentation), but at the end of the line in the third example. Which of the two is correct in terms of the PDF standard?

    • Adobe, XML Forms Data Format Specification, 2007, p.10<br />https://www.immagic.com/eLibrary/ARCHIVES/TECH/ADOBE/A070914X.pdf
      Adobe, XML Forms Data Format Specification, 2007, p.10
      https://www.immagic.com/eLibrary/ARCHIVES/TECH/ADOBE/A070914X.pdf
Example 4

  • See p.1 (p.9 of the actual page), where the second line is indented by an apparent 2.5 characters (1 character in the data). In the first and second examples, the <xfdf xmlns="http://ns.adobe.com/xfdf/" xml:space="preserve"> line following <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> is not indented. How many characters should be indented correctly in the PDF standard?

    • Adobe, XML Forms Data Format Specification, 2007, p.1<br />https://www.immagic.com/eLibrary/ARCHIVES/TECH/ADOBE/A070914X.pdf
      Adobe, XML Forms Data Format Specification, 2007, p.1
      https://www.immagic.com/eLibrary/ARCHIVES/TECH/ADOBE/A070914X.pdf
Example 5

  • Please refer to p.11 (p.19 in the actual page) and note the two separate lines from line 5 to line 6. We share the implicit assumption when reading such a source file that there is no line break and the two lines are connected, but can a person looking at this page for the first time without prior knowledge reach the same conclusion? Most textbooks for novice programmers clearly indicate the position of the line break, but there is no such information in this file, so it is difficult to judge.

    Some may also think that there are spaces or tabs on the left side, as indicated by the red vertical line. Of course, if you check the PDF data, you will see that there are none. However, there is no guarantee anywhere in this document that this document will be seen in an electronic medium, nor is there any explanation anywhere in this document that the samples on the electronic medium define the standards, i.e., the number of indentations, character type (spaces or tabs?), or how the closing tag is written.

    • Adobe, XML Forms Data Format Specification, 2007, p.11<br />https://www.immagic.com/eLibrary/ARCHIVES/TECH/ADOBE/A070914X.pdf
      Adobe, XML Forms Data Format Specification, 2007, p.11
      https://www.immagic.com/eLibrary/ARCHIVES/TECH/ADOBE/A070914X.pdf
    • Adobe, XML Forms Data Format Specification, 2007, p.0<br />https://www.immagic.com/eLibrary/ARCHIVES/TECH/ADOBE/A070914X.pdf
      Adobe, XML Forms Data Format Specification, 2007, p.0
      https://www.immagic.com/eLibrary/ARCHIVES/TECH/ADOBE/A070914X.pdf

While it is easy to understand things intuitively when looking at a diagram, it is generally not used in situations where such a wide range of interpretation is not allowed because of the possibility of a wide range of interpretation depending on the person looking at it. I have only seen the laws of my own country, but they are all written in letters. In cases where it is necessary to use diagrams, such as in patent documents, and where differences in interpretation are not permitted, there are an astonishing number of annotations. If a standard document also uses diagrams to show what is not allowed to be interpreted differently, there should be more strict annotations or definitions written elsewhere. In the absence of such a reference, the interpretation is left to the reader. At worst, it will surface as a compatibility problem.

Whenever a new technology standard is introduced, such as in computers or telecommunications, it is common for manufacturers to bring their actual products for interoperability testing, only to find that they do not connect properly. Both products are in compliance with the standards. However, there is a wide range of interpretation, and sometimes things go wrong. In such cases, if the participants were equal, they would work out the details of the standard. Unfortunately, Acrobat is where PDF (XFDF) all began, and if each company implements their own implementation because it is not clearly stated in the PDF standard, it is the users who may be in trouble. It is still fresh in our memory that Microsoft Internet Explorer also has many unique specifications and interpretations, which have been troubling web designers for many years. Of course, since the PDF standard has already been transferred to ISO, the participating companies are on an equal footing, but as I said in my post above, PDF is originally a proprietary format of Acrobat, so it is realistic to judge by the actual specifications of the actual product when there is a range of interpretation in the standard.

Also, on a personal note, if the XFDF format suddenly becomes beautiful, it will be necessary to modify the software at hand. When individuals create tools for their own use, they often do so without much consideration of generality, so it is likely that they will need to review their regular expressions, etc. If it is really a bug, that can't be helped, but I don't think the benefits definitely outweigh the development costs in Tracker required to update the program, the risk of having another bug due to up-dates, and the impact on society as a whole.

Thank you for reading this message as before.

Best regards,
rakunavi
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by David.P »

Thanks rakunavi, all true again, considering inevitable imperfections when trying to display program code within a PDF file.

What (implicitly) can be taken from the ISO 19444 specification is that the XFDF files can (and should be) formatted as it is common with XML files, i.e. using indentation -- the specifications of which are not included since they are commonly known in the art.

However, my point is not about indentation, which can be considered the icing on the cake in this context.

The main problem with those XFDF files are the line breaks, which are clearly at the wrong place:

Incorrect:

Code: Select all

><link Highlight="None" coords="227...."
><OnActivation
><Action
><GoTo
><Dest
><XYZ Page="652" Left="240.035843" Top="1258.238595"
/></Dest
><GoTo
</action
></OnActivation
></link
>
Correct:

Code: Select all

<link Highlight="None" coords="227....">
<OnActivation>
<Action>
<GoTo>
<Dest>
<XYZ Page="652" Left="240.035843" Top="1258.238595"/>
</Dest>
</GoTo>
</Action>
</OnActivation>
</link>

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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by rakunavi »

Hi David.P, thank you for your comment.

In my comment above, I compared not only indentation, but also the expression at the end of each element, as you can see "/>" in the red box in Example 1 and Example 2, and ">" in the blue box in Example 1 and Example 3. Comparing the two, you should be able to interpret that there is a difference in the way the line breaks are inserted. In other words, the line breaks in the square in Example 1 are closer to the actual output format in Acrobat and PDF-XChange Editor, and the line breaks in Examples 2 and 3 are closer to what you call the "correct" format. Your concern about the position of the line breaks is, of course, all understood since you wrote about it in your very first comment. On top of that, I showed you the above example, but I am not sure if I explained it well or not.

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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by David.P »

Yes rakunavi,

your example #1 is the only place in that ISO 19444 document (which I believe is a draft btw.) where parts of some closing tags are not at the end of a line (where they belong), but seemingly at the beginning of a line. But this is clearly due to sloppy editing (sorry to whoever is the author of that draft).

Nowhere in the ISO 19444 specification do we see anything even remotely similar to the awful formatting of (Adobe) XFDF files, like this for instance:

Code: Select all

><Dest
><XYZ Page="652" Left="240.035843" Top="1258.238595"
/></Dest
Taking into account all other of the many examples in the ISO document (some of them shown below), it can be seen that without doubt, it is the intention of the ISO 19444 specification to show perfectly standardized XML formatting with an opening tag at the beginning of each line and a closing tag at the end of each line -- and including indenting, in all cases.

A Google Image Search for "XML" also indicates that there can be no doubt about the fact that this is the standard notation for XML files everywhere:
google.com/search?q=XML&tbm=isch

Thus, Adobe XFDF files seem to be pretty much the only XML files in existence with this garbled and obviously buggy notation that does not adhere to their own specification nor to the ISO 19444 standard.

Best regards
David

--
image.png
image(1).png
image(2).png
image(4).png
image(5).png
image(6).png
image(7).png
[edit for typo]
Last edited by David.P on Tue May 02, 2023 10:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, All

Thank you for the lengthy discussion. Regarding the earlier question about page numbering starting at Zero, I see you found an answer to this, but tied to it one incorrect assumption. This is not specific to PDF, but instead how most programming languages handle arrays. The first indexed item in an array is "item 0" (In every language I have heard of to date). In UI design nearly every application translates that so that you and me, as the readers, see "page 1 of 10 instead of "Page 0 of 9" (for a 10 page document). To humans this is considerably more logical, but when editing the xml files directly, we need to use something that is also computer understandable.

Back to the topic of the xml formatting, you are correct that the appearance is much more garbled than necessary, I will bring this up to our Dev team and see if we can fix this in the future. I do not expect it to be a massive issue, the real question will be in priority. As this is perfectly functional as is, and our Dev team is quite overloaded with feature requests at the moment, I do not expect a swift update in this area.

Kind regards,
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by David.P »

Hello all,

in order to avoid having to use the complex methods for external link bulk-editing as discussed above, here's a friendly reminder as to whether ↓this feature could be discussed with the devs another time?

Bulk-Edit Link Actions.png

In the case shown, instead of 150 mouse clicks, I would only need five mouse clicks to change the link destination of these 30 links to point to page 1672 instead of pointing to page 2013.

Thanks very much for considering this improvement!

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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, David.P

I have added this graphic to the ticket in an attempt to bump its priority, but at this time I cannot say with certainty how much longer we will be waiting.

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Re: Batch edit Bookmarks and Links zoom level

Post by mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap »

David.P wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:18 pm Hello Alex,

thank you very much for your reply with your additional information about the Bookmarks plugin.

I absolutely agree that not every possible command should be found in the standard menus by default.

With respect to the 'Links' functionality, it would be great if this could also be updated, perhaps as you mentioned in the form of an own 'Links' plug-in.

As already sketched above, it would be amazing (and totally exclusive in the PDF software market), if 'Link' properties (same for 'Bookmark' properties) would remain fully editable also when multiple links (or bookmarks, respectively) are selected:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/XDWOvAq.png[/img]
I would like to add my voice to those who are advocating for the ability to bulk edit bookmark properties. In my case, I have large files with many bookmarks, which all have the X and Y destination properties set to "inherit"
image.png
I would very much like a way to bulk change them so they are not set to "inherit."
Does the following ticket include this capability:
RT#6448: FR: Edit multiple links destination/action properties while retaining unchanged properties.
Features I really want:
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap

Thank you for the added voice, Regarding the inherit item, I cannot promise how exactly it will work, as simply unchecking that for everything could lead to unexpected results (such as multiple bookmarks pointing to the same location on a page. For example, causing some re-ordering of the bookmarks with subsequent actions. Nonetheless, it is certainly one of the properties that are part of an action, which this ticket directly references, and so may be covered in this process, only time will tell.

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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by MedBooster »

+1

Btw. what screenshot software are you using, David? Those callout boxes look nice.
Wishlist
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by David.P »

Yes I miss it almost every day that we're not able to select several (or many) links, and then change the link destination of all selected links e.g. from page 873 to page 234 at once – instead of having to do hundreds of mouse clicks to achieve the same.

I've been using the screenshot software FastStone Capture for decades and I can recommend it like a certified nutcase. It even saves the screenshots additonally in a modified "vector bitmap" format, i.e. you can change the bubbles, text etc. later at any time.
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello David.P, MedBooster and all,

I've taken a look at the ticket - and it has been assigned to a developer - so it would be worked on.
However I still do not have an estimate as to when this would actually be ready and available. As soon as we have any further information - we will post it here.

Kind regards,
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by David.P »

That's very good news!
Thank you Stefan.
Cheers David
:)

PS: @mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap, I believe that this:
mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2024 8:23 pm I would like to add my voice to those who are advocating for the ability to bulk edit bookmark properties. In my case, I have large files with many bookmarks, which all have the X and Y destination properties set to "inherit"
I would very much like a way to bulk change them so they are not set to "inherit."
...is already possible by using the gear icon in the bookmarks panel:

Change bookmarks zoom factor.png
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap »

David.P wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 12:32 pm PS: @mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap, I believe that this:
mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2024 8:23 pm I would like to add my voice to those who are advocating for the ability to bulk edit bookmark properties. In my case, I have large files with many bookmarks, which all have the X and Y destination properties set to "inherit"
I would very much like a way to bulk change them so they are not set to "inherit."
...is already possible by using the gear icon in the bookmarks panel:
Thanks for the tip David! This is a good workaround, which works great on my giant monitors. However, on a small display (e.g., laptop) it will fit the entire page in the window, which can make it too small so the user must zoom in after a bookmark is clicked.

What I really want is a way to edit all bookmarks to have the following the properties.
image.png
image.png (74.5 KiB) Viewed 271 times
This way the bookmark takes the person to the top of the bookmarked page but doesn't change the zoom level.
Features I really want:
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2. Sanitize documents w/o being forced into save as dialog (Acrobat has this!): https://forum.tracker-software.com/viewtopic.php?p=156130
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap »

David.P wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:57 am I've been using the screenshot software FastStone Capture for decades and I can recommend it like a certified nutcase. It even saves the screenshots additonally in a modified "vector bitmap" format, i.e. you can change the bubbles, text etc. later at any time.
FastStone looks promising. It has Auto Capture in as few as 1 second increments, which is something I must have to convert videos into a series of screenshots that I can then assemble into one or more pdf documents. I was using ShareX, which has the same feature, but it looks like FastStone is quite a bit better overall.
Features I really want:
1. Fully customizable toolbars: https://forum.tracker-software.com/viewtopic.php?p=167585
2. Sanitize documents w/o being forced into save as dialog (Acrobat has this!): https://forum.tracker-software.com/viewtopic.php?p=156130
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David.P
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Re: Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by David.P »

mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 3:40 pmWhat I really want is a way to edit all bookmarks to have the following properties [...]
Yes, fine-tuning link or bookmark properties like this in bulk will require the feature that, as Stefan noted, is currently being worked on:

Bulk-Edit Link Actions.png
Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously
David.P
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TrackerSupp-Daniel
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Bulk-edit properties of multiple Bookmarks or Links simultaneously

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

:)
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