Color management Issue

Forum for the PDF-XChange Editor - Free and Licensed Versions

Moderators: TrackerSupp-Daniel, Tracker Support, Vasyl-Tracker Dev Team, Sean - Tracker, Paul - Tracker Supp, Chris - Tracker Supp, Tracker Supp-Stefan, Ivan - Tracker Software

Post Reply
yossizahn
User
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:15 pm

Color management Issue

Post by yossizahn » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:46 am

Hi,
I am having an issue with color being displayed wrongly.
I have attached a minimal sample PDF, my monitor color profile. My color Management Settings, and a side by side comparison of PDF Xchange & Adobe.
Untitled.png
Annotation 2019-01-07 124521.jpg
Attachments
TPLCD60.zip
(748 Bytes) Downloaded 29 times
sample.pdf
(385.08 KiB) Downloaded 31 times

User avatar
Paul - Tracker Supp
Site Admin
Posts: 4990
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:37 pm
Location: Chemainus, Canada
Contact:

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:49 pm

Hi yossizahn,

thanks for the post and the supporting files. We will need one of the development team to look at this, hopefully today.

regards
_________________
If posting files to this forum - you must archive the files to a ZIP, RAR or 7z file or they will not be uploaded - thank you.

Best regards

Paul O'Rorke
Tracker Support North America
http://www.tracker-software.com

yossizahn
User
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:15 pm

Re: Color management Issue

Post by yossizahn » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:26 pm

Hi,
Has anyone had a chance to look at it yet?

Ivan - Tracker Software
Site Admin
Posts: 3619
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: Vancouver Island - Canada
Contact:

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Ivan - Tracker Software » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:18 pm

We will try to fix this issue in the next build.
Tracker Software (Project Director)

When attaching files to any message - please ensure they are archived and posted as a .ZIP, .RAR or .7z format - or they will not be posted - thanks.

Timur Born
User
Posts: 694
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:50 pm

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Timur Born » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:55 pm

Does that mean that color management will get an overhaul in the next build?

User avatar
TrackerSupp-Daniel
Site Admin
Posts: 3149
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:52 pm

Re: Color management Issue

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:21 am

Hello Timur,

While we cannot make any guarantees, we will be trying to work this into the next build. That might mean a small patch, or it could possibly be the overhaul you have been asking for, there is also a slim chance that we will not be able to get it into this build. At the moment I am unsure of Ivan's thoughts on the specifics, and cannot speak for which it will be.

kind regards,
Daniel McIntyre
Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

Sales: +1 (250) 324-1621
Fax: +1 (250) 324-1623

Timur Born
User
Posts: 694
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:50 pm

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Timur Born » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:57 am

Thanks for the information. I liked the changes of the last build and will keep an eye on the next one.

User avatar
TrackerSupp-Daniel
Site Admin
Posts: 3149
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:52 pm

Re: Color management Issue

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:51 pm

:D
Daniel McIntyre
Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

Sales: +1 (250) 324-1621
Fax: +1 (250) 324-1623

Timur Born
User
Posts: 694
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:50 pm

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Timur Born » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:07 pm

Here we are a few builds later. What's the current status with color management?

Ivan - Tracker Software
Site Admin
Posts: 3619
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: Vancouver Island - Canada
Contact:

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Ivan - Tracker Software » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:04 pm

You are right in time :) We are in the middle of reworking our color management and already have some promising results.
You can see here how your sample is rendered with your profile and your settings now.

These changes will not be included in build 333 but must be in 334 if everything will be ok.
Attachments
image.png
Tracker Software (Project Director)

When attaching files to any message - please ensure they are archived and posted as a .ZIP, .RAR or .7z format - or they will not be posted - thanks.

Timur Born
User
Posts: 694
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:50 pm

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Timur Born » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:17 pm

Great news! :D

User avatar
TrackerSupp-Daniel
Site Admin
Posts: 3149
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:52 pm

Re: Color management Issue

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:34 pm

:D
Daniel McIntyre
Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

Sales: +1 (250) 324-1621
Fax: +1 (250) 324-1623

Ivan - Tracker Software
Site Admin
Posts: 3619
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: Vancouver Island - Canada
Contact:

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Ivan - Tracker Software » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:24 am

To be precise, in this particular case the difference between Acrobat and PDF-XChange is because the Editor renders in CMYK, while Acrobat renders in RGB color space.
To get the same result, please set the option "Preferences -> Page Display -> Rendering -> Default transparency blending color space" to "Working RGB".
Acrobat has a similar option and it is set to "Working RGB" by default, and, what is strange, even when you change it to "Working CMYK" in most cases Acrobat ignores this option.
Tracker Software (Project Director)

When attaching files to any message - please ensure they are archived and posted as a .ZIP, .RAR or .7z format - or they will not be posted - thanks.

Timur Born
User
Posts: 694
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:50 pm

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Timur Born » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:20 am

Switching to RGB may improve things in this specific example, but generally it is no solution to the overall problem. I posted the following comparison in another thread already, which demonstrates that switching to RGB can even be detrimental to the result. It all depends on the combination of document and display ICC profile being installed.

Image

I also wrote:
Switching from Auto (CMYK) to RGB does not exactly solve the problem. While the "haze" vanishes the image becomes too saturated, the same as Viewer using sRGB working space. (Viewer saturates even more when the DELL U3014 working space is used.)

This image also demonstrates that Microsoft ICM is only a partial solution, because its colors are less (micro)contrasty and slightly off compared to Adobe's output. Still better than the hazy LCMS version, though.

Ivan - Tracker Software
Site Admin
Posts: 3619
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: Vancouver Island - Canada
Contact:

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Ivan - Tracker Software » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:01 pm

In that topic, you posted only the images, but not your PDF. Can you please post it here or send me by email?
And your profiles for the monitor.
Tracker Software (Project Director)

When attaching files to any message - please ensure they are archived and posted as a .ZIP, .RAR or .7z format - or they will not be posted - thanks.

Matze
User
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:06 am

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Matze » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:22 am

Colortest.zip
(2.15 MiB) Downloaded 11 times
Hi,

I think, I got a similar issue. Grey colors are displayed and printed not correctly with PDF-XChange Editor (build 331.0 and earlier versions). Default transparency blending color space" was set to "Working RGB" but that didn't change anything.

The problem can be reproduced by these steps:

- Create a new document ("Colortest.docx") with Microsoft Office 2016 (same issue in Office 2010)
- Insert a new retangle shape
- Set fill color for example to RGB 243, 243, 243 (a bright grey, it also happens with some other colors)
- Save as pdf ("Colortest.pdf")
- Open with PDF-XChange Editor

The grey shape is displayed in yellow-brown color instead of grey.
After opening the print dialogue, it is displayed with correct grey color, but not if you choose the option „print as image“.

If you edit the shape properties in PDF-XChange Editor, choose "fill color", the "more colors" and click "ok" without any changes, the shape is displayed in the right color.

If you restart the print dialogue now, the behavior is inverted. You get the right printing color only if you choose „print as image“, otherwise the bright grey changes to a more blueish grey.

I have attached the above mentioned documents "Colortest.docx", "Colortest.pdf" and additionaly "Steps.docx with screenshots in "Colortest.zip".

With Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, the shape has the correct color (Screen and Print).

Best regards

Matthias Fischer

Ivan - Tracker Software
Site Admin
Posts: 3619
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: Vancouver Island - Canada
Contact:

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Ivan - Tracker Software » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:12 pm

Thanks for the files! Can you please also let me know what color profile is associated with your monitor?
For example, screenshot of Preferences -> Color Management dialog will show the current monitor profile when "Default" preset is selected.
Tracker Software (Project Director)

When attaching files to any message - please ensure they are archived and posted as a .ZIP, .RAR or .7z format - or they will not be posted - thanks.

Matze
User
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:06 am

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Matze » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:35 am

I attached my current color profile. I looks similar the the profile of yossizahn.

I also tried different settings but that didn't solve the problem.
Attachments
Color Management Options.zip
(124.17 KiB) Downloaded 8 times

User avatar
Tracker Supp-Stefan
Site Admin
Posts: 13919
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:07 am
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:31 am

Thanks Matze,

I will ask Ivan to take a look!

Regards,
Stefan

Ivan - Tracker Software
Site Admin
Posts: 3619
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: Vancouver Island - Canada
Contact:

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Ivan - Tracker Software » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:25 pm

Strictly speaking, the Editor renders everything correct, except print preview.
The problem is in your monitor profile.
Here is a short explanation of how we get this yellowish color: original fill color of the rectangle is 95.3% of gray. As the working space is RGB, we convert this color to RGB using color profiles specified by options "Grayscale" and "RGB" on "Color Management Options", then, we convert this RGB color to an output device profile, which is in your case the same as "RGB" color profile in the preferences.
And the conversion of 243 (of 255) in "Gray Gamma 2.2" to "B24W-7 LED" profile gives us this yellowish color with RGB values of (255, 240, 208).
As I said above, the only problem is with print preview (and printing) because due to our error, monitor color profile takes a part in color conversion for printing.
Adobe Acrobat, on the other hand, ignores this profile as it treats it as defective. We don't know the criteria of this decision so we cannot mimic it.
In Adobe Photoshop you can force using of even defective profile, and in that case, we got the same result as in the Editor.

In your case solution is to set a different color profile for your monitor in Windows settings, it is not used by the Windows in any case (color picker is the proof).
Attachments
image.png
Tracker Software (Project Director)

When attaching files to any message - please ensure they are archived and posted as a .ZIP, .RAR or .7z format - or they will not be posted - thanks.

Timur Born
User
Posts: 694
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:50 pm

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Timur Born » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:08 pm

Ivan - Tracker Software wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:01 pm
In that topic, you posted only the images, but not your PDF. Can you please post it here or send me by email?
And your profiles for the monitor.
This is the PDF I used. Seems like the site-owner forgot to renew the site certificate.

https://ulisses-spiele.de/assets/docume ... pdf?x22808

Display profile attached.
Attachments
U3014.zip
(2.49 KiB) Downloaded 10 times

Matze
User
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:06 am

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Matze » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:33 am

Thank you very much!

The change of the windows color profile solved the problem with the yellowish instead of grey color.
My old profile "B24W-7 LED" was automatically used according to my monitor. I didn't take account of that setting because I haven't applied any changes there.

Great Service!

Best Regards

Matthias Fischer

User avatar
Tracker Supp-Stefan
Site Admin
Posts: 13919
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:07 am
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Color management Issue

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:17 pm

Hi Matze,

Glad to hear this solved it!

Cheers,
Stefan

Post Reply