Tabs in version 357.0

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Arnold
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Tabs in version 357.0

Post by Arnold »

It was much easier for me to tell at a glance how many pdf's were open in the program prior to version 357.0. Now the tabs just seem to blend in together. See attached screenshots. Would it be possible to add a little horizontal space between the tabs?

With the tab settings I use, the underline of the selected tab is unnecessary. That tab already has a close button (x), and is a different color. Maybe the tabs could then be lower in height. Could this underline feature be made optional?

Thank you.
2021-10-22 23_54_50-2108-SPEC-2021 10 01-Bayshore ES Lobby Reno - PDF-XChange Editor.png
2021-10-23 00_05_56-2108-SPEC-2021 10 01-Bayshore ES Lobby Reno - PDF-XChange Editor.png
zarkogajic
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by zarkogajic »

Hi,

+1 for: make tab height smaller, allow to remove underline, make "close active tab" and "add new tab" buttons smaller.

:)

-žarko
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David.P
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by David.P »

Hello @all, and dear Tracker Support Team,

The dividing line between the tab and the content associated with that tab is one of the changes that also immediately struck me about the new user interface:

Image

As already noted by Arnold, I also strongly believe that the active tab should not be visually separated from the content or document associated with that tab. Rather, the tab should be visually in one piece with that content. This is the general, proven concept of tabs in a user interface.

It can be seen clearly in the example below. The tab, just like a tab in a paper folder, is made in one uninterrupted piece with the face of the associated part of the dialog, making the association between tab and content immediately evident:

Image Image

Also note how the non-active tabs are not made one piece with the window background in order to remain instantly recognizable as background tabs – which is unfortunately not the case with the menu/ribbon tabs of the new user interface.

With the design revision of PDF-XChange Editor, the Tab issue also applies to the menu and ribbon, respectively. There, too, the tabs should be visually made in one piece with the respective menu or ribbon face (as was the case with the previous builds), and not be separated from the active menu or ribbon by an optical separator.

While the new tab dividing lines elegantly sliding back and forth may look pretty, unfortunately they are detrimental to professional use of the program, as they interfere with one's quick visual orientation, and therefore are more confusing than supportive to the user. I would therefore also vote to consider removing these lines from the user interface.

Kind regards,
David
--
PS: We definitely should discuss the redesign of the scrollbar as well soon – and not in terms of personal taste... :|
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DIV
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GUI design (Tabs, Ribbon & Scrollbar) in version 9.2.357.0

Post by DIV »

These are all fair points.

By the by, looking at the new design I wonder if the so-called "underline" was an attempt at some sort of 3D effect? E.g. more in the style of a suspension file with plastic tab clipped onto the top than a single-piece manila folder.

Personally I also like the older-style 'chunky' scrollbar, but I suspect that may be more difficult to hang on to, judging by design choices in some other applications, inter alia.

I'm sure there are some improvements too. For instance, one I noticed is that the small Show Sorted Tabs button has a greater graphical distinction from the adjacent file tab in the new GUI.
I think it is worth pointing out the enhancements too. (Even though they're also subjective.)

—DIV
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Re: GUI design (Tabs, Ribbon & Scrollbar) in version 9.2.357.0

Post by David.P »

DIV wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:32 pmI'm sure there are some improvements too. [...] I think it is worth pointing out the enhancements too.
DIV, that's totally true, and I shall make sure to do so as soon as I get around to posting more (annotated) screenshots.

Best regards
David
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Arnold
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by Arnold »

Meant to mention the scroll bar in my initial post. The old scroll bar constantly used different colors for the arrows and the areas above and below the scroll box. With the new scroll bar, only the thin icon at the center of the scroll box is a different color, unless the mouse is hovered over a particular element. This makes the scroll box stand out less, especially when using page up and page down keys with a long document. The old style seemed more informative.
2021-10-24 14_16_58-.png
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DIV
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Re: GUI design (Tabs, Ribbon & Scrollbar) in version 9.2.357.0

Post by DIV »

Now that I've actually installed version 9.2 ...
DIV wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:32 pm [...] looking at the new design I wonder if the so-called "underline" was an attempt at some sort of 3D effect?
The "underline" beneath the Ribbon headings actually appears more like a horizontal scrollbar (scrolling ribbon menus), and is animated to lag slightly behind the actual ribbon selection. (Think mouse 'tails'.) Looks like a cool effect in search of a need. Leaving that aside, it is implemented well for both keyboard and mouse interaction.
The "underline" beneath the filename in the active tab appears like a horizontal scrollbar too (scrolling tabs). It is also animated to lag the selection of a tab, but the implementation is a little inconsistent: with keyboard interaction the animation is barely perceptible, but it is much more obvious with mouse interaction.

The concern for me with the vertical scrollbar was in the ease of activating/selecting/clicking its interactive elements. The smaller the elements are, the harder the scrollbar is to interact with. Of course, when some users regret the loss of a few pixels due to horizontal "underlines", I can understand that there may be a motivation to shrink some elements. However, from a closer inspection (stepping across the screen with Mouse Keys turned on) it seems that for the most part the interactive 'surface' of the scroll bar is the same: it just looks different.
Leaving aside the overall style, I record one small specific detail.
In the new design the vertical scrollbar seems slightly lopsided when in a Restored window size (i.e. not Maximised) or when Editor's Search pane is shown. The dark-grey bar itself (in slim form and in swollen form), and the clickable region in general is slightly skewed to the left. The reason is apparent by examination of the interface in Editor 9.1: in Editor 9.1 there is a slim 'frame' at the edge of the window, adjacent to the vertical scrollbar, coloured #f9f9f9, while the background of the scrollbar has a clear contrast at #c8c8c8. But in Editor 9.2 the same slim 'frame' is coloured #fcfcfc, while the background of the scrollbar has almost no contrast at #f9f9f9.
However I am reassured now that the functionality of the new vertical scrollbar (9.2) seems to be practically the same as with the old scrollbar (9.1).

—DIV
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Paul - Tracker Supp
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp »

Thanks guys for the in depth critique.

We do read these, and even if we do not post regularly in these discussions, know that the development team are reading these and paying attention.
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Arnold
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by Arnold »

Working on a 24 inch x 36 inch architectural drawing. Zoomed in to 400% to look at some details. White vertical and horizontal scroll bars almost lost in the sea of white contained in the drawing itself.
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by Vasyl-Tracker Dev Team »

Hi guys.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I tried to consolidate all of them and 'transform' into tasks:

1. Add a little space between the inactive tabs (or maybe a separator?)

2. Option to make tab bar height smaller

3. Option to make close-the-active-tab and add-new-tab buttons smaller

4. Option to remove the animated underline for tabs (for Ribbon tabs too)

5. Make new scroll bars a little darker (not white at least).


Am I missing something important?

Cheers.
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by igorlima »

Vasyl-Tracker Dev Team wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:12 am Hi guys.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I tried to consolidate all of them and 'transform' into tasks:

1. Add a little space between the inactive tabs (or maybe a separator?)

2. Option to make tab bar height smaller

3. Option to make close-the-active-tab and add-new-tab buttons smaller

4. Option to remove the animated underline for tabs (for Ribbon tabs too)

5. Make new scroll bars a little darker (not white at least).


Am I missing something important?

Cheers.
Hi, Vasyl!

For me If the numbers 2 and 4 could be implemented it would be great! Thank you very much!
Igor
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Tabs in version 357.0

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

:)
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by Arnold »

Vertical scroll bar comparison with 32 inch x 40 inch drawing on page 36 of 52 pages.

Thumbnail comparison using same page.

Removing the underline from Ribbon tabs helps I think with association problem as noted in David's earlier post. Removing the underline for the active File tab not quite as much. Does nothing for the disconnect with Thumbnails.

Thanks.
Version 356 Scroll Bar.png
Version 358 Scroll Bar.png
Version 356 Thumbnails.png
Version 356 Thumbnails.png (15.89 KiB) Viewed 2173 times
Version 358 Thumbnails.png
Version 358 Thumbnails.png (10.47 KiB) Viewed 2173 times
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp »

I will confess to liking the old scroll bar better, but I am really old!

Thanks guys for all the input.
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by Arnold »

I do like the old scroll bar better, no doubt. Is that because I am 70 then?

In that last post I thought about asking facetiously if we could have a "Classic" theme since I am so set in my ways!
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp »

Hi Arnold,

it may be our age...

I did mention this to the team and was told it's not practical to provide different styles for the scrollbar and that compromise is the way forward. We will not abandon the new style, but we will tweak it where appropriate.

No harm in asking, no is just no. It took me half a lifetime to realize that.

cheers guys
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by Arnold »

Oh I was quite sure it was impractical, and that is why I said "facetiously ask". I am using 358.0 every day. Glad they are open to tweaking it though.

Thank you.
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by DIV »

Vasyl-Tracker Dev Team wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:12 am Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I tried to consolidate all of them and 'transform' into tasks:
[...]
Am I missing something important?
Hello, Vasyl & all.
I also mentioned an inconsistency in animating the 'underline' on the file tabs.

As foreshadowed by igorlima's contribution, some sort of ranking is needed too.

Paul - Tracker Supp wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:34 pm I did mention this to the team and was told it's not practical to provide different styles for the scrollbar and that compromise is the way forward. We will not abandon the new style, but we will tweak it where appropriate.
Hello, Paul & all.
I think that's a very fair approach. Frankly, I think we users (esp. on this forum) are generally happy to have the suggestions given due consideration. Sometimes a specific user suggestion won't be practical, or won't be commercially viable — we understand that. (So I can imagine that maintaining two GUI's — new and 'classic' — would significantly increase the development team's workload, and the appeal to the broader user community may not be commensurately increased.)

Regarding the scrollbar(s), I am on the same page as other contributors to this post: I liked the old scrollbar, but I have to admit there may be a familiarity factor involved too. I have seen the general style of the new Editor scrollbar elsewhere in 'modern' applications, which is why I doubted that there would be much chance of returning to the old scrollbar.
Once I installed the new version I found that functionally the new scrollbar actually behaves pretty similarly to the old one, but tweaking the colours sounds like a very useful thing to do. This was indirectly alluded to in my earlier comments on "one small specific detail", but put much more succinctly and concretely by Arnold:
Arnold wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:26 pm Working on [...] architectural drawing. [...] White vertical and horizontal scroll bars almost lost in the sea of white contained in the drawing itself.
On the specific matter of the animated "underlines", some options for appraisal are:
  • do nothing (because that's always an option!);
  • give users an option to disable this (sounds like overkill to me for this one feature; it would make more sense if bundled to disable all animations, as Windows allows/allowed ...except that I'm not sure if there any other animations in Editor's GUI. This could potentially be listed as a 'design' setting, or as an 'accessibility' setting, or as a 'performance' setting.)
  • change the colour/thickness/appearance of the underlines to de-emphasise them (I don't have a suggestion on specific changes, but this is in line with the proposed approach on the scrollbar(s))
  • entirely discard this in future versions.
—DIV
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by DIV »

DIV wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:05 am On the specific matter of the animated "underlines", some options for appraisal are:
[...]
change the colour/thickness/appearance of the underlines to de-emphasise them (I don't have a suggestion on specific changes, but this is in line with the proposed approach on the scrollbar(s))
My preliminary thoughts on this were around reducing the contrast and thickness of the underlines, but another option is to change the shape: make it a disk, or a diamond, or a 'jewel'. So the animated 'underline' would still act something like a scrollbar's knob, but being shorter and chunkier (and not draggable).

Cf. the scrollbar knobs at
https://courses.csail.mit.edu/6.831/archive/2008/lectures/L7-generating-designs/image003.png (Xerox Star diamond)
https://media.istockphoto.com/vectors/set-of-scrollbars-set-vector-id1043190978 (plain & decorated discs)
https://favbulous.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/219.jpg (3D knob effect)

—DIV
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by Willy Van Nuffel »

Also be aware of the visibility of the knob while using Search.
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by David.P »

Ah! That last screenshot by Willy shows another strong argument of how... deplorable the new scrollbar is :(

(I shall post a somewhat more rational argumentation about the user interface and the scrollbar asapst)
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by Vasyl-Tracker Dev Team »

Also be aware of the visibility of the knob while using Search.
Good point and we missed it. :( Thanks for comment, Willy.
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by Arnold »

The white theme works best on my laptop. The other themes just look too dark overall for that display.

I customized the Main, Page View and Dialog backgrounds to make them a little darker so they stand out. The Ribbon background remains white and tends to blend into the document. See attached.

It would be nice to darken it just a bit also. Would it be possible to allow the customizing of this background as well?

2021-10-31 12_07_47-VISTA COVE - CURRENT COMBINED - PDF-XChange Editor.png

Thanks.
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp »

That would be nice.

Changing "Face" does impact this but also other things. I wonder if that could eventuate as we develop support for saving themes.
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by Arnold »

Opening screen text re double click file opening cannot be seen with dark background in 358.0

356.0.png
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358.0.png
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, Arnold

Thanks for this, that is one item we are aware of and a working on for the next release, though with the limitless options available for these background colors, and how the style pattern can affect that, it will likely be a work in progress for "middle ground" tones like this, for quite some time.

In the meantime, the "text" color does affect this to some degree, using white text, instead of a dark option will help greatly with your custom theme.

Kind regards,
Dan McIntyre - Support Technician
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Re: Tabs in version 357.0

Post by Arnold »

The settings used in each version were the same. I imported the settings I came up with for 358.0 into 356.0. The Fish Skin background pattern is selected which I had never used before 358.0. Man those scroll bars in 356.0 are good.

Thanks.
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Tabs in version 357.0

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

:)
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