Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

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mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap
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Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap »

My understanding is that the easiest way to embed fonts is to save the file as pdf/A. This is relatively easy. However, I would like a menu option to embed fonts that works similar to the resize pages button. I push the button to embed fonts, it shows some options, I click okay, and the fonts are all embedded (fonts that cannot be embedded should be rasterized; this would be one of the options).

I must embed fonts because it is required for documents I submit to a certain government agency (USPTO).

Thanks
Features I really want:
1. Fully customizable toolbars: https://forum.tracker-software.com/viewtopic.php?p=167585
2. Sanitize documents w/o being forced into save as dialog (Acrobat has this!): https://forum.tracker-software.com/viewtopic.php?p=156130
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TrackerSupp-Daniel
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hi, mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap

This is something which has been an ongoing feature request for some time now. Though I cannot provide a timeline for its implementation, our Dev team have accepted the request, and are working on it for the future. I will make note of your support for the request!

Kind regards,
Dan McIntyre - Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

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Our Web site domain and email address has changed as of 26/10/2023.
https://www.pdf-xchange.com
Support@pdf-xchange.com
mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap »

Okay, that would be great.

One more thing. I saved a file as pdf/a. If you open the file, it says the fonts are embedded. However, when I upload it to the USPTO's website, I get an error saying that some of the fonts are not embedded.

Here is the file I tried to upload:
2021-08-05 IDS.pdf
(158.05 KiB) Downloaded 61 times
Here is a screenshot of the error message I received:
Thanks
Screenshot 2021-08-05 135440.png
Any ideas about what is happening? Should I use another method to embed fonts?
Last edited by mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap on Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Features I really want:
1. Fully customizable toolbars: https://forum.tracker-software.com/viewtopic.php?p=167585
2. Sanitize documents w/o being forced into save as dialog (Acrobat has this!): https://forum.tracker-software.com/viewtopic.php?p=156130
bqxmprij
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by bqxmprij »

I suggest you print to pdf via pdf-exchange printer. Saving to pdf/a didn't work for me either. In the preferences setting window, go to the fonts section. Select all things to embed all fonts. I created an Embed All profile. I had to go through windows settings to make that profile be the default profile.
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Tracker Supp-Stefan
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello bqxmprij,

Thanks for the suggestion. This will make the printed file PDF/A - but some font information might still be lost, as the Editor could print some fonts as curves - so the driver will not have font information to embed, but rather only vector objects.

Kind regards,
Stefan
mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap »

bqxmprij wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:27 pm I suggest you print to pdf via pdf-exchange printer. Saving to pdf/a didn't work for me either. In the preferences setting window, go to the fonts section. Select all things to embed all fonts. I created an Embed All profile. I had to go through windows settings to make that profile be the default profile.
Thanks for the tip. That worked. It is odd that creating a PDF/A file that says all fonts are embedded does not actually embed all the fonts (according to the USPTO). Yet printing it to a file does embed all the fonts.

For the developers who are working on an easier way to embed the fonts, please make sure the fonts are embedded the same way they are when printing the file and not the method used to save a file as a PDF/A file.

Thanks all
Features I really want:
1. Fully customizable toolbars: https://forum.tracker-software.com/viewtopic.php?p=167585
2. Sanitize documents w/o being forced into save as dialog (Acrobat has this!): https://forum.tracker-software.com/viewtopic.php?p=156130
bqxmprij
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by bqxmprij »

I have wondered for a long time how a PDF/a document could not have fonts embedded. It happens all the time with pdf files. I have come to conclusion that pdf/a requires most, but not all fonts to be embedded, or not 100% of the font embedded.

This https://www.pdfa.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/PDFA_in_a_Nutshell_211.pdf says:
PDF/A also places higher demands on the information it contains. All required fonts (or at least all glyphs for the specific characters used) must be embedded within the PDF.
I don't know if that is right, but all required fonts sounds like something less than all fonts.

Look at the embed font options in the printing preferences of the pdf-xchange printer. I bet pdf/a does not "force embed protected fonts," "embed extended font/character info," or "force embed temporary fonts."

For the purposes mentioned above, the goal is not to have a pdf/a compliant document. The goal is to have a document, which when inspected programmatically to ask the question, "are all fonts embedded?", the answer is an unequivocal yes, without caveat.

I hope this helps. I really want answer. Currently, when saving as pdf/a fails, when then printing with embed all fonts fails, I have to use a third party software to print the pdf again. This software never fails, but I just don't like using it.
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Tracker Supp-Stefan
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello bqxmprij,

"All required fonts (or at least all glyphs for the specific characters used) must be embedded within the PDF." means that if you only have the word "This" in a specific font - only a subset of the whole font can be embedded (namely the information needed for those 4 specific letters 'T', 'h', 'i', 's'), and this will still be valid PDF/A document, and the part of the font used inside the document will be embedded. This is not too significant for languages using Latin or Cyrillic alphabets, but for CJK (East Asian) fonts where there might be tens of thousands of 'letters' in the font - embedding only part of it can have a significant impact on the file size.

Kind regards,
Stefan
DIV
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by DIV »

Hello, Stefan.

I think bqxmprij's main observation in the recent post was that
"All required fonts" ≠ "All fonts"

Saying "All required fonts" opens up a question. How can I determine whether something is "required" or not? If the font is a 'common' font, say, then maybe it need not be considered to be "required"?

Of course, "All fonts" could also be considered to be unclear. Does it mean "All fonts that have ever been created", for instance? Or how about "All fonts, including for text that has since been deleted"?

I suppose, based on your interpretation, that the PDF/A standard really means
"All fonts used in that PDF document"
or more precisely
"All fonts used in formatting text elements of that PDF document" (to exclude fonts used within some embedded images).

—DIV
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Paul - Tracker Supp
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp »

Hi Div,

you are essentially right, the fonts for all characters used in the document, if available.

As mentioned there are often reasons they can't be embedded, like text as curves etc.
Best regards

Paul O'Rorke
Tracker Support North America
http://www.tracker-software.com
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David.P
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by David.P »

Hello all,

I would so much love to see this issue fixed.

It shouldn't be that hard to add a feature and button named "embed all fonts", or is it...?

Even better, of course, would be to have a button near a fonts list, perhaps on the text properties toolbar, named for example "Embed this font":

image(3).png

I am constantly creating documents for third parties where I then may find that some fonts are not embedded. Usually, I only notice this by accident, since the documents are displayed correctly on my own PC with the local fonts installed, only for everyone else the documents can look completely different.

It unsettles me when I think about how many thousands of PDFs I have created over the years that may not display correctly.

Re-printing the documents is not an option, because then various functionalities like links and bookmarks etc. can be lost. In addition, it is too time-consuming to reprint every document every time changes are made.

Saving as PDF-A or PDF-X is also an inconvenient workaround, since this can multiply the file size, especially since images then seem to be contained using poorer compression modes.

To sum up, it would be really good if this could be taken care of.

Thanks very much
Best regards
David.P

--
PS: In the meantime, are there any other ways or not-so-difficult workarounds to inject missing fonts into PDF documents?

PPS: If at all, I can at best recommend saving as PDF/A as an emergency workaround, definitely not as PDF/X. Saving as PDF/X just removed all comments for me, changed the color profile and reduced the resolution of the embedded images. Additionally, there are now very unsightly artifacts in various places. I did not change anything in the "Save as PDF-X" standard options, in particular there was no check mark at the "Remove comments" checkbox!

PPPS: Also in general not everything seems to be functioning correctly with the font handling. I have now embedded all fonts at least for my current document by saving it as PDF/A. However, this has increased the size of the document by almost 10 MB of fonts alone, since now, every font used in the document is embedded:

image(2).png

Therefore, I'd like to remove the embedding of some common fonts like Arial, Segoe, Tahoma, Times etc.. However, this does not work, because almost all embedded fonts are not even displayed for unembedding, and thus cannot be removed:

image(1).png
David.P
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TrackerSupp-Daniel
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, David.P

I cannot make any promises for a timeline, but you are correct that at this time, the methods you have listed are effectively the only ones on hand. The Dev team is aware of this demand, and after some discussion today, the priority is increasing.

Hopefully we can at the very least see an "embed used fonts" button, and an expansion of the manual font removal controls in the somewhat near(-ish) future.

Kind regards,
Dan McIntyre - Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Our Web site domain and email address has changed as of 26/10/2023.
https://www.pdf-xchange.com
Support@pdf-xchange.com
mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap »

One button font embedding would be great!

I should note that saving a document as PDF/A does not fully embed the fonts (according to the USPTO; and I think the USPTO is right). See this thread. viewtopic.php?p=168060#p168060.

However, re-printing a document as a PDF/A file does embed the fonts.

It would be nice if saving the file as PDF/A fully embedded the fonts.
Features I really want:
1. Fully customizable toolbars: https://forum.tracker-software.com/viewtopic.php?p=167585
2. Sanitize documents w/o being forced into save as dialog (Acrobat has this!): https://forum.tracker-software.com/viewtopic.php?p=156130
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TrackerSupp-Daniel
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap

I believe that PDF/A, being intended for Archival, assumes that the file will not need to be edited further, so only the used subset of the font is necessary to embed, rarely the entire font. This also helps to try and keep the file size a bit lower as whole fonts can be, very large...

Kind regards,
Dan McIntyre - Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Our Web site domain and email address has changed as of 26/10/2023.
https://www.pdf-xchange.com
Support@pdf-xchange.com
mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap »

TrackerSupp-Daniel wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2023 11:03 pm Hello, mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap

I believe that PDF/A, being intended for Archival, assumes that the file will not need to be edited further, so only the used subset of the font is necessary to embed, rarely the entire font. This also helps to try and keep the file size a bit lower as whole fonts can be, very large...

Kind regards,
I don't think it's an issue of whether a subset or the entire font is embedded. Rather the issue is that one method (save as PDF/A) produces a PDF/A document that the USPTO says does not have embedded fonts and another method (reprint as PDF/A) produces a PDF/A document that the USPTO says has embedded fonts. I documented all this in the thread I linked to although it went off in a different direction and I think the original point was lost.
Features I really want:
1. Fully customizable toolbars: https://forum.tracker-software.com/viewtopic.php?p=167585
2. Sanitize documents w/o being forced into save as dialog (Acrobat has this!): https://forum.tracker-software.com/viewtopic.php?p=156130
bqxmprij
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by bqxmprij »

mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:29 pm One button font embedding would be great!

I should note that saving a document as PDF/A does not fully embed the fonts (according to the USPTO; and I think the USPTO is right). See this thread. viewtopic.php?p=168060#p168060.

However, re-printing a document as a PDF/A file does embed the fonts.

It would be nice if saving the file as PDF/A fully embedded the fonts.
+ 1 for this feature request of one button full font embedding.
Arnold
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by Arnold »

+1. This would be great.
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TrackerSupp-Daniel
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Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

:)
Dan McIntyre - Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

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Our Web site domain and email address has changed as of 26/10/2023.
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David.P
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by David.P »

As long as there is no other option to "post-embed" fonts, I was just going to briefly note that it seems to work very well to inject non-embedded fonts into a PDF by saving it as PDF-A.

This only seems to delete any custom commands that are present in bookmarks or fields, for example. Therefore, these have to be restored afterwards.

Best regards
David
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TrackerSupp-Daniel
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Re: Feature Request: Easier Font Embedding

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel »

Hello, David.P

we do have an ongoing (and still open) FR for this, I will be sure to bring extra attention to it in our next meeting, hopefully that will help us see a priority increase.

Kind regards,
Dan McIntyre - Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Our Web site domain and email address has changed as of 26/10/2023.
https://www.pdf-xchange.com
Support@pdf-xchange.com
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