Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

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vada
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Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by vada » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:38 am

Is there a way to navigate through the menus when they are displayed in the non-ribbon mode (the old-fashioned kind like from before ribbon bars were invented) using ONLY the arrow keys (and Alt to get to the menu)? Not the mouse and not with letter keys.

This is how menus are navigated on essentially all other programs ever written. The way PDF Editor disables the arrow keys for menu navigation is a baffling and outrageously non-standard behavior. IF you don't want to use the mouse it forces you to use extremely complicated letter combinations, of which there are hundreds if not thousands, which no user anywhere under any circumstances will ever memorize.

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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by Will - Tracker Supp » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:17 am

Hi vada,

Thanks for the post - I agree with you here and have pass this to the dev. team for further comment.

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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:08 pm

HI vada,,

the development team got back with:
We have such feature in Classic UI, but seems there are some bugs at the moment (will fix them in new build for sure).
For the Ribbon - please create a FR,

So I have done that, raised a formal Feature Request for such navigation in the Ribbon, and while for internal use only, if you refer to RT#4833: Feature Request :: A way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse. any support staff member can get you an update.

I hope that helps.
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vada
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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by vada » Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:04 pm

Paul - Tracker Supp wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:08 pm
the development team got back with:
We have such feature in Classic UI, but seems there are some bugs at the moment (will fix them in new build for sure).

So I have done that, raised a formal Feature Request for such navigation in the Ribbon....RT#4833: Feature Request :: A way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse.
Did anything ever come of this? Without arrow keys I can't use the program at all and uninstalled it. I must be missing something in how people use computers in general because I can't comperehend anyone spending 7 seconds or whatever to break their concentration, pick up their hand, move it the mouse, point through menus, and then put their hand back on the keyboard every time they want to perform any function in the program.

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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp » Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:42 pm

Hi Vada,

did you ever reinstall to try this? While the ticket is still of the status "Open" I find that I can navigate using the keyboard in the current build, 8.0.335.0, both in the Ribbon and Classic UIs.

Is there some specific Tools or Functionality you still cannot access via the keyboard? That may be why the ticket is not set as resolved, perhaps there is more work to do.

It looks to me that it is much better than it was. I would be keen to hear your feedback.
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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by Puffolino » Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:50 am

Most of the menus are working fine, one problem is the context menu (including functions like cut, paste, arrange, properties) which can be activated with the keys FN+Menu on my windows PC. The menu appears but gets no focus, so the cursor keys will move the selected object(s) and shortcuts (like 'R' for arrange) don't work.

I miss also shortcuts in some dialogs, let's take "Transform selection" for example: the (un)locking toggle needs to activated by the mouse (which have to be done very often as the toggle state gets resetted to "locked" each time the dialog appears). But it would also be cool to jump quickly to the width gadget just by pressing Alt+W, etc.

Another thing I am not clever enough is the property setting window, for example the "Text Properties". I never got it how to show a drop down menu (Alt+Down is typically in windows) nor to select an entry using the cursor keys then (would be fine for font selection) or to jump to the next option in the window (from "Font" to "Font Size", etc.) - the "Tab" doesn't work here.

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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by uwe paschertz » Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:35 am

Hi,
I have a similar question: Is there a key (or can I create a key combination) to activate the main window again, after creating a bookmark? After creating a bookmark, the bookmark window is active and the arrow keys just scroll in the bookmark window but not in the main window. So I always have to use the mouse to click into the main window, just to activate it and make it possible to use the arrow keys again.
There is already a possibility: STRG + left/right arrow, but this remains the bookmark window active, and does not activate(jump into) the main window and STRG + up/down arrow is not functional.

I use Version 6.0 (Build 321.0)

Thank You!

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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by Puffolino » Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:22 pm

uwe paschertz wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:35 am
[...] Is there a key (or can I create a key combination) to activate the main window [...]
Not an easy job - I tried to set a shortcut for the content panel, but that doesn't help. F11 will allow you to control the main window and select a page (as a Ctrl+Shift+N would do) but you don't get back to the Bookmark panel easily (even Ctrl+B won't activate it)...

That's something like my wish for (a shortcut) to center an active element on the screen. When moving an object using the cursor keys it quickly runs out the screen - then it would be nice to catch it quickly.

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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by uwe paschertz » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:21 pm

Thank you, puffalino, for your good idea: F11 brings you to the full-picture-mode. That mode you can easily end by pressing Esc and the content panel/main window is activated without using the mouse.
Now we have to find a possibility to combine F11 and ESC to one button/key and our problem would be solved.
Puffolino wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:22 pm
F11 will allow you to control the main window and select a page (as a Ctrl+Shift+N would do) but you don't get back to the Bookmark panel easily (even Ctrl+B won't activate it)..
To go back to the bookmark panel and create a new bookmark you can use the shortcut CTRL+Shift+B.
To that shortcut I added the Insert-button as a new "shortcut" in addition to CTRL+SHIFT+B, so it is even more comfortable.

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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan » Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:01 pm

Hello Uwe and Puffolino,

Thanks for the discussion so far.
While not a "one press" get focus back solution - pressing F11 two times should get you to full screen and then back to normal - should be quicker than F11 and then Esc.

And I am sure our interface devs will keep an eye on this topic for your other suggestions related to the ticket and any improvements they make to making our products usable more with just the keyboard!

Happy New Year,
Stefan

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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by vada » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:19 am

Paul - Tracker Supp wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:42 pm
did you ever reinstall to try this? While the ticket is still of the status "Open" I find that I can navigate using the keyboard in the current build, 8.0.335.0
I hadn't, because I had no way of knowing if the problem had been solved other than by repeatedly checking the website, installing the latest version, and then uninstalling if it hadn't been (because arrow-key navigation is a dealbreaker for me), which would have been too much work. But based on your message I tried 8.0.335.0 and I can provisionally say it works, which is terrific and so now I can use Editor and it seems great (after much frustration trying many other pdf programs). "Provisionally" because I only installed it yesterday and I know from experience, glitches can later show up. If it was up to me I would give it a couple weeks before marking this thread as solved.

That being said, I'm cautiously optimistic that arrow nagivation is arrow navigaton and if it works on the first few tries it will work all the time. Furthermore it is correctly handling the behavior of left- and right-arrows in drop-down menus - the thing where, if you're in a drop-down menu and you right-arrow and there's nowhere farther to the right to go, it jumps you up to the main top menu bar (File Edit View Document Comments...) and moves you to the right up there. this is how it should be. The alternative, which is a hassle and you occasionally find in programs, is that it will just keep you stuck at the "dead end", meaning you have to left- and up-arrow several times to get back to the main top menu .
Last edited by vada on Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by vada » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:25 am

Paul - Tracker Supp wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:42 pm
Is there some specific Tools or Functionality you still cannot access via the keyboard?
EDITED - Yes, there is (1) at least one arrow-key navigation function that is still broken and (2) a legibility problem in the drop-down menus. See my next posts in this thread.

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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by vada » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:40 am

Puffolino wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:50 am
one problem is the context menu (including functions like cut, paste, arrange, properties) which can be activated with the keys FN+Menu on my windows PC.
Yes - this is unquestionably a bug. Right-click in a document, or hit that key whose name I don't know, it's like a menu key or something -> context menu appears -> now, the up- and down- arrows should move through the context menu but instead they make the document scroll up and down.

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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by Puffolino » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:00 pm

If you need to create multiple bookmarks for consecutive pages, you could also use an alternative sequence:
Ctrl+Shift+B, Ctrl+., NEXT, Cursor Down, Ctrl+Shift+B,....

Maybe some additional functions (and shortcuts) would be useful, I'd like things like:
* activate main window
* activate panel (bookmarks, content, comments, layer, etc.)
* activate property panel
* hide/show ALL panels (bookmark, content, etc.)
* hide/show properties: Strg+'
* hide/show function bars: Strg+F8
* hide/show status
* Shortcuts in dialogs and panes

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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:21 am

Hello Puffolino, Vad and Uwe,,

I am currently consolidating a large list of items to place into a "master ticket" with a checklist so that we can ensure we get all the necessary functions in order and have keyboard navigation fully functional sooner than later. Before I make this, ticket are the any other specific items you would like me to include in there that I may have missed?

Kind regards!
Daniel McIntyre
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Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

Support: <Support@tracker-software.com>
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Fax: +1 (250) 324-1623

vada
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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by vada » Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:34 am

TrackerSupp-Daniel wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:21 am
Before I make this, ticket are the any other specific items you would like me to include in there that I may have missed?
Moving through documents with the arrow key is inconsistent. I started a new thread for this because I wasn't sure if it counts as related, given that it's about page movement as opposed to menu navigation.

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33666

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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel » Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:41 pm

Thank you for the link Vada,

[update: As detailed in my reply on the other post, unfortunately that issue is unrelated as it is caused by the document itself, but there are still some navigation issues to be addressed]

I will include those details as well, as navigation, whether in the document or UI, is certainly not ideal.

Kind regards,
Daniel McIntyre
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Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel » Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:31 pm

Hello again all,

I have created the ticket for tracking these issues now, It has been tentatively named as follows:
RT#5057: "keyboard only navigation" gripes
I have requested that it be set as a mid-high priority bug ticket, as the items within are impeding the use of the software for many users.

As usual, you cannot look this ticket up directly, but you can ask any member of our support team for details on it. Unlike usual, this ticket, being a collection ticket, may have a series of smaller tickets assigned below it as "dependants" as time goes on, and will likely not be marked as resolved until all items below it have been addressed. In this case, it will likely be a long time before this ticket itself is "resolved", but having it in place should help to get the individual items below it addressed in a more timely manner.

Kind regards,
Daniel McIntyre
Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

Support: <Support@tracker-software.com>
Sales: +1 (250) 324-1621
Fax: +1 (250) 324-1623

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Re: Is there a way to navigate menus with arrow keys and not mouse?

Post by vada » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:03 am

Many thanks for creating the ticket.
TrackerSupp-Daniel wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:31 pm
Unlike usual, this ticket, being a collection ticket, may have a series of smaller tickets assigned below it as "dependants" as time goes on, and will likely not be marked as resolved until all items below it have been addressed.
Good to know. This kind of information prevents lots of headaches.


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