Why doesn't hand tool select?

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yossizahn
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Why doesn't hand tool select?

Post by yossizahn » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:39 am

Why is there no option for using hand tool to select?
It's an option in Adobe Reader. It's an option in Foxit Reader. When will it arrive to PDF Xchange? I would find it very useful. It's a pain to keep changing tools.

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Paul - Tracker Supp
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Re: Why doesn't hand tool select?

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:49 pm

Hi yossizahn,

thanks for the post. I would suggest the Select Tool is for selecting Hand Tool is for moving the page. What advantage is there to making the Hand Tool behave like the Select Tool? Why not just use the Select Tool to Select?

I took a look at the behaviour of both Foxit and Adobe reader DC and it appears to me that both use the Hand Tool the way we do, though there is an Option to "Make [the] Hand Tool Select Text" that requires a modifier key (Shift) in Foxit, I didn't check Adobe.

This is the feature you are looking for? Can you tell us why this feature is important to you?
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yossizahn
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Re: Why doesn't hand tool select?

Post by yossizahn » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:36 pm

Hi,
Thanks for your reply!
Paul - Tracker Supp wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:39 am
I took a look at the behaviour of both Foxit and Adobe reader DC and it appears to me that both use the Hand Tool the way we do, though there is an Option to "Make [the] Hand Tool Select Text" that requires a modifier key (Shift) in Foxit, I didn't check Adobe.
I haven't used Foxit for some time but as far as I remember, the hand tool will select without any modifier. That is definitely true in Adobe.
Paul - Tracker Supp wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:39 am
This is the feature you are looking for? Can you tell us why this feature is important to you?
The idea is that since selecting and panning are very common operations, and it is possible to combine both in one tool, why have seperate tools, necessitating switching between them on a constant basis?
The way it works is the the cursor displays as a hand and does the panning operation by default. However when hovering over text, the cursor will change shapes to bar shape and act as the selection tool, when hovering over an image, the cursor will show the select image cursor. This allow switching functionality without any effort. Want to pan? Just go to an empty area! Want to select? Hover over item you want to select and you get the select tool!

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Re: Why doesn't hand tool select?

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:11 pm

Now that you explain it like that I can see the sense of it and agree it is a useful feature. To that end I have raised a formal "Feature Request" around this.

While it is not a promise to deliver said feature is us a commitment to seriously looking into it. While the associated ticket is internal only, should you refer to RT#4600: Feature Request :: Editor :: Option to Select Using the Hand Tool in an email to support@tracker-software.com or here in the forum, then any support staff here will be able to get you a status update.

I hope that helps.
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yossizahn
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Re: Why doesn't hand tool select?

Post by yossizahn » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:13 pm

Wow! Thanks,

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Paul - Tracker Supp
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Re: Why doesn't hand tool select?

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:14 pm

My pleasure yossizahn!

Lets see what V8 brings us in the spring. :-)
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avada
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Re: Why doesn't hand tool select?

Post by avada » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:27 am

Paul - Tracker Supp wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:11 pm
While it is not a promise to deliver said feature is us a commitment to seriously looking into it. While the associated ticket is internal only, should you refer to RT#4600: Feature Request :: Editor :: Option to Select Using the Hand Tool in an email to support@tracker-software.com or here in the forum, then any support staff here will be able to get you a status update.
If this feature is not accepted a more convenient way to to swap between select/hand would be great, as something easier to implement. Preferably by doing something with the mouse. Left+right click together perhaps?

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Why doesn't hand tool select?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:05 am

I never used to have this problem because I had the default tool set to the Text Select tool. This is a much more useful default than the hand tool, since scrolling and panning a document is best done with the Scrollwheel or Shift+Scrollwheel (to pan sideways).

I found the setting in Preferences, Tools, and changed it.

I also set easy to remember shortcuts of T and H to select the Text and Hand tools.

Adobe Reader switches to the hand tool for panning on holding down the spacebar. This is a good solution for this seldom used tool.

Double-click to select text when the hand tool is active might also be helpful. Changing tools via the toolbar, or right-click menu is rather too slow for my liking.
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TrackerSupp-Daniel
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Re: Why doesn't hand tool select?

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:11 pm

Thank you for the feedback Bhikkhu,

We have taken these points into account, and will consider these suggestions.

All the best,
Daniel McIntyre
Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

Support: <Support@tracker-software.com>
Sales: +1 (250) 324-1621
Fax: +1 (250) 324-1623

avada
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Re: Why doesn't hand tool select?

Post by avada » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:12 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:05 am
I never used to have this problem because I had the default tool set to the Text Select tool. This is a much more useful default than the hand tool, since scrolling and panning a document is best done with the Scrollwheel or Shift+Scrollwheel (to pan sideways).
I don't agree in a general sense. You could use the mouse for scrollbing and the arrow keys for jumping to the next page in continous mode, which some might prefer. Having the text select tool interfere's with this.
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:05 am
This is a good solution for this seldom used tool.
You're generalizing, and wrongly. I'm quite sure people use the hand tool far more often, especially since it's the default, for all pdf viewers I've seen.

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Ovg
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Re: Why doesn't hand tool select?

Post by Ovg » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:35 pm

avada
Support you ! ++ :D
It's impossible to lead us astray for we don't care even to choose the way.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Why doesn't hand tool select?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:26 pm

avada wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:12 am
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:05 am
I never used to have this problem because I had the default tool set to the Text Select tool. This is a much more useful default than the hand tool, since scrolling and panning a document is best done with the Scrollwheel or Shift+Scrollwheel (to pan sideways).
I don't agree in a general sense. You could use the mouse for scrolling and the arrow keys for jumping to the next page in continuous mode, which some might prefer. Having the text select tool interferes with this.
It only interferes if some text is selected, not if the text tool is selected, and in neither case does it interfere with scrolling and panning with the mousewheel.

To deselect text, click anywhere in the margins or wherever there is no text, then the cursor keys will work however you have defined them to work. I use them for scrolling by line. Panning with the hand tool is painfully slow and labour intensive. OK for viewing CAD drawings perhaps, but not for viewing long text documents.

The text tool is the default in Adobe Reader for me. I don't recall if I changed it, or even if one can change it. Pressing the spacebar temporarily enables the hand tool.
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TrackerSupp-Daniel
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Re: Why doesn't hand tool select?

Post by TrackerSupp-Daniel » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:34 pm

Thank you for the further input Avada and Ovg,

As per usual, we consider many aspects to each feature, and weigh in the merits and demerits before making a decision. While some of the points mentioned may have been a slight over-generalization, it is a fact that there are some who would use it like that, so we do need to take that perspective into consideration into account as well.

Like before, there are no guarantees, and I have only promised that we will consider these propositions.

Kind regards,
Daniel McIntyre
Support Technician
Tracker Software Products (Canada) LTD

Support: <Support@tracker-software.com>
Sales: +1 (250) 324-1621
Fax: +1 (250) 324-1623

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