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Remove windows frame

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:05 pm
by hsrstud
Thank you for your assistance. I'm wondering if there is a way to customize the PDF-XChange Editor UI to remove the windows frame. I've attached a picture with a red arrow showing the bar that I'm referring to.

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:43 pm
by Paul - Tracker Supp
Hi hsrstud

use the Ribbon UI.

:-D

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:34 pm
by hsrstud
I prefer the traditional UI, since the ribbon UI is quite large. This is actually why I want to remove the window frame: to maximize reading real estate. I'm using a small laptop. Is there any way to do this using the traditional UI?

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:36 pm
by David.P
Just for fun, I tried to make a maximum space saving UI with v.7:
Image
  1. UI switched to Classic Toolbars
  2. Put all (necessary) menus and any additional buttons in the title bar (amazing that this is possible now with v.7!)
  3. Disabled scaling in the settings
Hth,

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:42 pm
by hsrstud
That is great! I'm going to try again. For some reason I thought I couldn't put any buttons in the title bar, but I'll give it another shot.

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:23 pm
by Arnold
Been thinking of using the Import Settings feature a lot more in the program. I generally use the program for 3 things, reading and searching through asbestos surveys, scanning and creating regular business documents, and scanning, bookmarking, and linking post job abatement packages for the clients. I do a lot of scanning.

Each scenario uses features the other one doesn't. There are some in common. With version 7, I can fit all icons related/required to one of these scenarios on the title bar. If I include the Import Settings icon in each setting file, I can then switch between them effortlessly. I believe that will work better than the shortcut keys for toolbars I was using previously.

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:02 pm
by David.P
OK so now I have re-created almost my entire customizations. This is rather easy and quick if you run v.6 along with v.7 side by side (one of them as portable version).
Image

Unfortunately, the (incredibly useful, context sensitive) Properties toolbar:
Image
...can't also be placed in the titlebar, neither completely nor its (admittedly changing) constituent parts.

This however is a problem for me because I use the Properties toolbar constantly all the time -- but would rather not want to add an entire toolbar row just for the Properties toolbar, neither have the Properties toolbar freely floating.

With v.6, I used to have all buttons including the properties toolbar in one single row like this:
Image

It would be great if this could be realized in version 7 -- also in case the title bar is the single main toolbar like in the first screenshot.

Therefore, I'd like to suggest to make it possible to not only place buttons and menus, but also entire toolbars in the title bar!

Of course it would be equally great to be able to freely place "Properties" as (context sensitive) toolbar button group like this:
Image

Thanks to the Tracker team for consideration,
Keep up the fantastic work,
David.P

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:28 pm
by Arnold
I noticed that too. At least with the Properties toolbar, it might be because of it's size. Depending on what object you have selected, there can be a fairly large number of icons.

I was thinking that one solution might be to have a setting in preferences to allow the property toolbar to appear when an object is chosen. Then when you click off of, or Escape from the object the toolbar disappears. It would not be so bad then to have it on a separate line.

I am probably not considering a multitude of reasons why that would not work well.

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:04 pm
by David.P
Arnold wrote:At least with the Properties toolbar, it might be because of it's size. Depending on what object you have selected, there can be a fairly large number of icons.
Yes, but the size is not the reason why it is not currently possible to put the Properties toolbar on the titlebar. Rather, you can not put any toolbar on the titlebar at the moment, only seperate items (buttons, menus) of other toolbars. Additionally, the Properties toolbar is not customizable (i.e. you can't drag anything off it to somewhere else).

Also, if you put all your buttons on any other toolbar (not the titlebar), you can still put the Properties toolbar besides all your stuff on the same toolbar row. Then, in case the toolbars should get too wide horizontally (for example when selecting text), they automatically shrink accordingly (including the Properties toolbar):
Image
Properties toolbar when text is selected for editing

Image
Same, auto-shrunk when not enough horizontal space is available
Arnold wrote:I was thinking that one solution might be to have a setting in preferences to allow the property toolbar to appear when an object is chosen. Then when you click off of, or Escape from the object the toolbar disappears. It would not be so bad then to have it on a separate line.
That would be possible (like with the image toolbar in Word that only appears when you select an image, which is quite handy) -- however, the Properties toolbar then would pop up all the time as soon as you select or click on just about anything (which I do probably every ten seconds when working with PDF's).

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:02 am
by Arnold
Oh yeah the Properties Toolbar works great if it is docked on the same row as other toolbars. I have it set that way now, and it just bulldozes everything out of it's way. I love the way it works in version 7. It could work great on the Title Bar as well. I figured Tracker might not want to do that on the Title Bar as the file name is stuck nominally in the middle of the Title Bar. On my laptop the Properties Toolbar can stretch almost completely across the screen depending on the what is selected. I rarely have use of the Properties Bar, but it definitely would be a bad fix for you.

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:31 am
by Arnold
I went back to refresh my memory. The Properties Toolbar got really long when I double clicked on an object. So at that point It was reflecting the properties of the pop up note, not the object itself. It stretched about 2/3 of the way across the screen.
2017-12-09 19_21_40-Greenshot.png
Couple of other things that seem to happen. It appears that the Properties Toolbar will bulldoze other regular toolbars, but not the ones you create yourself as shown here. The toolbar on the left not collapsed is one I created. Instead the Properties Toolbar collapsed and another toolbar drops down when it is clicked. Cannot get a screenshot of that though as touching any key causes it to disappear.
2017-12-09 19_21_40-Greenshot.png

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:51 pm
by David.P
Arnold wrote:It appears that the Properties Toolbar will bulldoze other regular toolbars, but not the ones you create yourself as shown here.
I found that the Properties toolbar (marked green, right) first displaces/compresses other toolbars (also user-created toolbars, here marked blue-ish on the left):
Image

...further compression of left toolbar (when selecting the polygon comment):
Image

...but in the end, the Properties toolbar leaves the custom toolbar alone and instead collapses itself (when editing comment text, where the Properties toolbar would be too wide to fit):
Image

...providing a Properties flyout instead:
Image


Anyway, as long as toolbars in general (thus also the the Properties toolbar) can't be placed in the Titlebar, we'll probably have to live either with having a minimum of two rows of (tool)bars, including the Titlebar, or with placing the Properties toolbar somewhere else, for example freely floating like here:
Image

I only wished the Properties toolbar would collapse even more when nothing is selected (like here), and that the "Exclusive Mode" button could be removed -- I never use it, but have accidentially activated it probably hundreds of times, only wondering what was wrong with my document afterwards.

--
Edit: the Properties toolbar does collapse even more -- when the option "show text labels in toolbars" is not active:
Image

This way, I might actually settle for
placing the Properties toolbar somewhere else, for example freely floating like here
Image

...because cramping the Properties toolbar, which can get REALLY wide as we have seen:
Image

...in the program titlebar (together with everything else) indeed might not be the best idea.

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:30 pm
by Paul - Tracker Supp
Thaks David,

I'm glad it is more usable for you this way. I don't think that is about to change.

regards

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:22 am
by David.P
Thank you Paul -- yes I think that this is a good compromise for a minimum size toolbar set :)

Actually, after all the above considerations, I think that Arnold's suggestion would round things off to near perfection:
Arnold wrote:I was thinking that one solution might be to have a setting in preferences to allow the property toolbar to appear when an object is chosen.
Then when you click off of, or Escape from the object, the toolbar disappears.
...meaning that the Properties toolbar would not only minimize itself like here:
Image
... but could be set to auto-hide completely (when the user is only reading, i.e. when neither a tool nor something on the PDF page is selected).

Edit: Ah! there it is:
Image
Kind regards
David

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:53 pm
by Patrick-Tracker Supp
Hi David,
Thank you for the post. Shall I consider this solved, then?
Cheers!

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:07 pm
by Willy Van Nuffel
Hello,

Myself, I am sure about what we are seeing here above ...

I see an option "Hide Properties toolbar when nothing is selected".

Is this a preview of an option that is going to be add in build 323.1 or is this is a 'wish' or dream from David ? Photo-shopped ?

Best regards.

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:14 pm
by Patrick-Tracker Supp
Hi Willy,
Oops! It seems I am not seeing this seems to be a wish from David - I had not checked that the feature existed, assuming it was a screenshot.

David,
Thank you for your suggestions. As always we will take them into consideration. As I am sure you know the dev team are working hard already to improve the software and fix other issues.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:41 pm
by David.P
:)

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:12 pm
by Tracker Supp-Stefan
Hello David and all,

While not exactly the automated solution proposed by Arnold - you can add a button to show/hide the properties toolbar (or use the Ctrl-E shortcut):
Properties_toolbar_button.png
Properties_toolbar_button.png (13.13 KiB) Viewed 2413 times
So you could effectively only have the window frame with all your needed buttons on it, and show/hide the properties toolbar only when you need to make changes, so if e.g. you want to make some yellow highlights, and have the highlight tool in the window frame area - click that and start highlighting. You will only need to show the toolbar if you e.g. want to use red highlight (or just add a separate button for the red style :) ).

Cheers,
Stefan

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:32 pm
by David.P
Thank you Stefan for your proposal!

In my case however, I use the Properties toolbar all the time (probably about every two minutes) -- so I'd prefer having it immediately accessible all the time.
(...ideally only when something is selected of course:)

Cheers & keep up the great work
David

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:24 pm
by Willy Van Nuffel
Can it help to only have the Properties icon (available as a Command item) in one of the toolbars?

Regards.

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:44 pm
by David.P
The Properties command only opens a large Properties window (and needs a click to do so). This is not a viable substitute for the Properties Toolbar in all its splendor and usefulness:
Image

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:28 pm
by Tracker Supp-Stefan
Hi David, Willy,

So the "fastest" and most compact solution I can think of with the currently available options is to have all your buttons on the Window, and the only toolbar to be the properties one, which you will toggle with Ctrl-E when needed (once every two minutes is enough to warrant closing it when not needed with a simple key combination in my opinion).
I will of course bring this discussion to the attention of the interface designers, so that they can consider what else could be done!

Cheers,
Stefan

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:27 pm
by David.P
Thank you Stefan,
I see what you mean. Let's see what the UI designers come up with.
Cheers
David
--
Hint:
Image
:)

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:06 pm
by Tracker Supp-Stefan
Thanks for the hint David,

Vasyl is the lead UI developer, but is unfortunately not feeling well today, so he said that he will look at this and think on it - but it will take him longer, so apologies if we don't give any immediate feedback here!

Cheers,
Stefan

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:38 pm
by David.P
That's perfectly understood, thank you Stefan.

Let's hope that Vasyl will get well again soon. No need to hurry about this small UI improvement.

Cheers
David

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:46 pm
by Tracker Supp-Stefan
Hi David,

Yea indeed the most important thing is for all of us to be well!
And I was also thinking on this request. You can't technically have "nothing" selected. But the tool that can possibly go without properties toolbar is the hand tool - so e.g. the text in your suggestion will probably be better changed to "Hide the properties toolbar when the hand tool is selected". ;)

Cheers,
Stefan

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:54 pm
by David.P
Hi Stefan,
Tracker Supp-Stefan wrote:You can't technically have "nothing" selected. But the tool that can possibly go without properties toolbar is the hand tool - so e.g. the text in your suggestion will probably be better changed to "Hide the properties toolbar when the hand tool is selected".
Strictly spoken, that's of course right, because you always have at least a tool "selected", i.e. active.

On the other hand, I just found that there only seem to be about four tools that really have no properties whatsoever: the Snapshot Tool, the Select Content Tool, the Select Comment Tool and the Edit Content Tool.

However, the Hand and Select Text Tools still have the "Exclusive Mode" (on or off) property:
Image
Hand tool has property "Exclusive Mode"

So as long as the Exclusive Mode button stays on the Properties Toolbar (which probably makes a lot of sense), auto-hiding the Properties Toolbar (when floated, and when Hand Tool or Select Text Tool are active) would prevent instant access to the Exclusive Mode button for these two tools. However, that would not be a problem for me (and I think for many), because I for my part never use "Exclusive Mode" anyway, and if I would have to use it some day, it would be only a matter of switching the Properties Toolbar on, should it be hidden.

When I think about it for a minute, I feel that the (floated) Properties Toolbar even could remain auto-hidden no matter what tool is selected. For me, it would absolutely suffice to make the Properties Toolbar appear at the moment a selected tool is actually used, i.e. as soon as you click in the page and either create or select an object on the page using the selected tool.

Therefore, for simplicity I would suggest to use the following wording for the proposed option setting feature:

☑ Hide the Properties toolbar when floated and nothing on the page is selected ;)

Cheers,
David

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:33 pm
by Paul - Tracker Supp
Thanks for that David, your suggestion sounds reasonable to me. Lets see what Vasyl thinks on his return.
:-)

Re: Remove windows frame

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:15 pm
by Vasyl-Tracker Dev Team
Hi David.

Thanks for the interesting idea. I guess is good to change the option slightly:

☑ Hide the Properties toolbar when no object is selected
- because technically the Properties toolbar may be shown when you selected object not from the page: bookmark for example.

We may add that option in the future..

Cheers.